What am I doing wrong?

[Knai]

Originally Posted by krpeters

No, I gave it a try. Without the etherealness, a bane lord gets hit too often by a horde of Dai Bakemonos, routs, and dies. With the etherealness he gets chewed up and spat out due to insufficient protection (even with boots of stone) Meanwhile, the ethereal gargoyle or an ethereal ironskinned troll king pound on them relentlessly. Admittedly the extra HP of the gargoyle and the regen of the troll king help a lot.

Take a look at some other defenses. Luck is easily gained, and there are other interesting options. Awe has been discussed, as well as the Vine Shield and its entangling effect. Then there are the really fun options. The Charcoal Shield, for instance, can be surprisingly effective as a form of protection against chaff. Then there is the matter of numbers. One Bane Lord will get cut down, true. What about three, each armed with a frost or fire brand? That will take a lot of chaff, or chaff buffed to the point they no longer deserve the name.

[triqui]

what Knai said.

Sure, a Banelord naked is not enough to fight against hordes of huge strength guys with 2 handed weapons as Dai Bakemonos. That's clear, those Dai Bakemonos hit through his armor.

But give the Banelord a Golden Shield (awe)+Luck Pendant, and let's see how it works

Probably a Vine Shield might be enough. Vine Shield + Luck Pendant would work for sure.

[rdonj]

There's no such thing as being really safe, but to be "safe" you need to be somewhere in the vicinity of 24mr. A gargoyle wearing all of the +mr gear (mr amulet, starshine skullcap, rainbow armor, lead shield) is in this vicinity, though obviously a lot weaker than normal in actual combat. Probably the easiest thing to switch out and keep it strong in melee would be the shield, and that should leave you with 22 or so mr. Also, for etherealness, try bringing along an astral mage to buff with body ethereal.

[BewareTheBarnacleGoose]

Triqui is right about the etheralness. If you are kitting thugs right, the normal damage negated by it isnt really what you're worried about. Magic is what is going to take down most thugs, and etheralness doesnt protect against it. Sure, lucky rolls can still kill your thug, but imo the robe isnt worth it- losing the protection and other benefits from the chest slot isnt worth the etheralness.

Think about it this way- etheralness protects against 75% of non-magic hits ( I think), while an amulet of luck protects against 50% of all hits, and lets you have higher protection (by having armor) for the hits that do get through. It's really a better deal.

Doubling or tripling up on thugs is also a good idea. At first it doesnt seem efficient- ideally, two fully kitted thugs could raid two different provinces. But pairing them allows you to get away with less gear on each letting you save on gems (as compared to fully equipping them). And it will increase their odds of survival.

[TigerBlood]

If you're playing CBM, try the Poison Golem. No flight (without gear), but it's MR starts out a lot higher. I'm fond of boots of the behemoth and a pair of shields, but that is just me.

[Corinthian]

I think you are all misunderstanding the purpose of thugs and gargoyles in general. They are not supposed to beat every kind of enemy. They generally have a specific task in mind and things that fall outside that scope should be handled in other ways.

For the gargoyle the main selling argument is that you get a flying raider that can knock over most PD and cant be mindhunted for 16 gems (in CBM 1.92).

Why on earth would i want to spend 35 gems equipping it with mr gear in order to block just one of the uncountable myriad of things that can kill a thug? I could get two additional Gargoyles for that cost! Thugs die all the time! Deal with it!

It would be much better to just get 3 Gargoyles, give them a frostbrand and hope that they kill and conquer more than they themselves are worth.

If you are facing an astral nation, dont give them mr items. No, give them a silver hauberk. Control and opposition have short range and if you stay out of that range the mages will switch to other spells. Just wait until the enemies comes to you. If an enemy comes within melee range the Gargoyle will automatically stop waiting and attack it.

From the astral path of magic the only other dangerous spell -(that I can think of right now)- is arcane bolt. And that's were the silver hauberk comes in. It cost 5A and gives you the spell effect Air Shield 80%. And because Arcane bolt is a "bolt" spell it can be blocked by Air Shield.

[triqui]

Paralyze has range 100, as I said before. Most of the normal anti thug spells have MR.

Obviusly, for a thug, it might not be needed. For more serious SC (ie: the ones you use against armies,instead of raiding PD), MR is a must. You dont need a huge amount, just using the right chasis and an amulet to raise it to 22 is enough.

[Corinthian]

But triqui, the Gargoyle is mindless. This means that it is immune to all forms of magic that affect the mind.

Paralyze? Immune! Soulslay? Immune! Enslave mind, charm, and master enslave? Immune!

In fact, mindlessness in combination with the other tag called lifeless means that the Gargoyle is immune to all MR-negate spells!







...with the exception of these four: Control, Opposition, Arcane Domination and Disintegrate. And leaching darkness apparently. Dont give it a shadow brand! Blind is a maybe? Anyway, all of these spells Except Arcane Domination are short ranged and can be dealt with by using the above methods. And if your enemies are hunting your thugs with Arcane Domination... Well, then you really have worse things to worry about.

[triqui]

Good point, I stand corrected

[krpeters]

Just to be clear, I was talking about a fully kitted thug. For the Gargoyle: Vine Shield, Pendant of Luck, Amulet of Antimagic, Boots of Behemoth, Sword of Swiftness, Robe of Shadows, and that horned helm. That's why I like the robe of shadows so much -- combine that with the pendant of luck and the vine shield, and you're wrapping up troops left and right for minimal damage.

A horror helm would probably protect the thug better... but I'm trying to wipe out AI hordes, not just send them screaming into the hills. Although with the gargoyles I could fly them in and cut off their retreat and exterminate them that way.

Any modest quantity of bane lords against 300+ troops just dies after inflicting minimal damage. A single kitted gargoyle will stampede them plentifully -- unless an astral mage fries him first.

Do the other MR item effects stack? Maybe the rainbow armor and doubleshielding with the lead & vine shield is the way to go.