GOLD A.I. vs old A.I. - Page 2

Menschenfresser · #11 December 10th, 2001, 07:02 PM

I fall somewhere between the Last two Posts. I am all for supporting quality game makers like Malfador and Shrapnel. Especially during a time in gaming when it seems as if the industry is producing the same crap over and over.

I absolutely love SE4...hands down. However, I do feel I am going to wait to see what Gold holds. I will probably buy it anyway, if only for the continued updates.

I would love to see the game expand and forever expand. That is the nature of the game and of those who play it.

I am usually a patient gamer, meaning when I hear a game is coming out and it entices me, I usually wait...sometimes a year or two, before picking it up. A)It is cheaper by then, and B) it has already gone through several patches. Sometimes I even wait for the Gold edition.

I am not so interested in Malfador tweaking the AI to perfection....I am sorry, but they (malfador) just don't have the time. The modders are the key; therefore, I support the faction, if there is one, that wants as many extra mod files added to the game as possible. Events, Ai files, abilities, abilities abilities.....add as much as possible even if Malfador doesn't have the time or will to exploit them in new features. We can make them.

The focus should be on what the modders want, because afterall, we all end up playing with either our own mods or someone else's in the end.

In the end, that is what will make me appreciate the Gold Version.

Q · #12 December 10th, 2001, 07:24 PM

I agree with Menschenfresser that the priority for MM should be in things that improve the possibilities of making modifications.
The intoduction of the drones is a good example, that we never could have achieved through modding, but gives us great new possibilities (as far as I can tell).
On the other hands the introduction of weapon mounts for satellites and weapon platforms is something modders have already developped a long time ago. If MM includes that in the gold Version, fine; if they reinvented it by themselves it's a waste of their precious time.

jowe01 · #13 December 10th, 2001, 09:07 PM

Q is actually putting the finger on the issue. Most of the AI shortcomings which were mentioned in the first Posts of this threat and in some others cannot be fixed by "simply" modifying the data files. They require that the code is changed. Obviously, this requires a most probably non-negligible input in terms of time from Malfaldor. From my point of view, the Gold edition would be the point in time to make that investment ... and be paid for it. Only changes to the hardcoded AI can bring about revolutionary improvements in single player mode. The modders, while doing great jobs, can only optimize the parameters which the hardcoded AI employs - and currently this often means optimizing the behaviour of an artificial idiot.

[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: jowe01 ]

geoschmo · #14 December 11th, 2001, 02:28 AM

Well Jowe01, I couldn't disagree with you more, but I see no reason to "hammer" you about it. It's a differance of opinion after all.

I believe that simply in terms of the hours of play received from the original game, I have received so much more for the original $35 dollars than I had any right to expect.

The ai may not be perfect, but to be honest I don't play the ai all that much. I don't think that with a game with as many variables as this one has, you will ever get an AI that can take a competant player in a straight up fight. But I play against other humans, and even an inexperienced human player can offer a far greater challange than an AI.

I have eagerly preordered my copy of the Gold CD and would highly encourage everyone else to do the same. If for nothing else it is worth it for the onging support or this great game. But that's not all you get of course. He has added many features that we have all been asking for.

If you don't feel it's deserved though, by all means don't waste your money on it. That's your opinioin, and it's your money.

Geoschmo

Beck · #15 December 12th, 2001, 06:52 AM

But that could be said of the AI of virtually any game out there now or in the foreseeable future. Strategy games in particular suffer because by their very nature, there are a huge number of variables. I never expect the AI to produce classic tough games. The AI is a tool to learn the game and to try new strategies for use against human opponents. To me that is the real game and why I purchased it. I agree with Q I would rather see any programming time go to improving the modifications available to modders, etc. than improving an AI to which we would make the needed adjustments to and be back right where we're at now.

jowe01 · #16 December 14th, 2001, 04:55 PM

I do not think that SE4's AI is already at a point where it can no longer be significantly improved given the current state of technology. Pacing, remembering claims and dangerous spots, prioritizing targets (what is the most valuable target, which battles will I most probably win and which will I loose ?) and generally improved diplomacy (i.e. less arbitrary), all these are weaknesses which could still be improved if Malfaldor was willing to invest the necessary time. The launch of the Gold edition would be a good moment to tackle these issues because the considerable increase in single-player value would most probably lead to better reviews and thus better sales. Hence, I believe there is a return on the time investment to be earned.

Obviously, the AI matters less in multi-player mode. However, I guess most of the time, SE4 is still played in single player.

Mephisto · #17 December 14th, 2001, 05:39 PM

Such massive improvements would require a complete re-write of the code and even MM cannot do this in less than a week...

steveh11 · #18 December 14th, 2001, 06:32 PM

OK, this is just by tuppenceworth of ramblings:
Poor me, I play exclusively single-player, i.e. against the AI. I still have enourmous fun, since I can set up the game to give me a "fun-and-winnable" game, in much the same way as Civ and it's siblings do.
I have installed - and removed - a couple of mods, and gone back to the 'vanilla' game. Use of the mod-picker *may* make using these simpler, so I may have another play-around with them.
As a single-user only player, PBW, PBEM and TCP/IP are unnecessary frill *for me*. A more interesting AI is much more in my interest. I gather it's not really been tackled, but nevertheless I'll probably get the Gold Version - eventually. EUII will get it first.
Steve.