Yet another new person with a question...

[Squirrelloid]

I can't understand recommending MA Ulm to a new player. The nation is so bad it makes me cringe just thinking about it. All that heavy armor amounts to nothing when they start fainting at the first sign of combat. MA Ulm should have a label 'for masochistic experts only', its totally unplayable for a new player. (And lets not start with the 'zillion types of slightly different infantry' syndrome. MA TC has the same problem, and doesn't get a recommendation from me for the same reason despite being leaps and bounds more playable.)

MA Man is, however, perfectly playable against the AI by a new player. Its cavalry is excellent and longbows are very effective, meaning you can fight the AI off just recruited units if you choose. But it doesn't offer much range of play experience.

But if the new player wants to experience a range of play, I think Nieflheim is quite possibly the best choice. Very forgiving of mistakes as rdonj said. Against the AI, Nieflheim can almost do no wrong. Which means the player is free to experiment with game functionality and not be too worried about getting hosed.

After giving Nieflheim a go and becoming familiar with the basics, I'd probably play one of EA/LA Mictlan or EA Ermor.

-One of those two Mictlans should be played with F9W9 minimal bless just so you can experience the other end of sacred performance (turbo offense to the Niefl Giant turbo-defense), and of course Mictlan is all about the blood magic, which against the AI a player should be able to experiment fairly freely with since they'll have a pile of jags keeping the AI from interfering with whatever else they're doing. Now, Nieflheim could dabble in blood, but they can't afford it quite like Mictlan can afford it. Basically, Mictlan gives them a totally different play experience.
-EA Ermor is a great nation for experimenting with communions. You've got a good basic troop, the principes, which will handle all your expansion for you just fine, and stay useful against the AI all game. And you've got powerful recruit-anywhere astral-capable mages to try out communion mechanics with. To top it all off, EA Ermor can afford an awake pretender so you can try a RB researcher or an awake SC and explore your pretender options more fully. (Now, EA Ermor is on the weaker end in MP games, but that has almost nothing to do with its performance against the AI).

Once you've played those three nations, you've learned just about everything SP can teach you. (Ok, except for 'how to expand effectively as EA Agartha', but some things man simply wasn't meant to know).

[HoneyBadger]

If you want a Nation that's good for teaching basic Dom 101, I would recommend EA Tien Chi.

It's humans with diverse equipment, all of which is useful in it's own way. The Sacreds are powerful, especially for humans, and work with most Blesses, their's a lot of colorful and fun Pretenders to choose from, and the mages are powerful (but not necessary to fully embrace, to beat the single player game). There's also a lot of neat little Summons, which should make learning the magic system a little more fun.

It's perfectly possible to beat the AI into submission, in the most hamfisted way possible, with EA Tien Chi, so very little pressure on the new player to learn a bunch of fansy tricks.

[fantasma]

One of my first games was Niefelheim, it got boring very soon when I stomped about the map with several groups of the blue giants. That left me with a dull feeling for the game.

Then I started a game as Marverni, simply the theme got me, and you know what? It taught a whole lot more. It has decent troops once you learn which ones to use against who and very nice mages with the druids.

But similar things can be said about many nations, the point is to pick the ones you enjoy themewise. You will learn how to make them effective, at least against the AI.

Regarding Man, I think they are dull. Ulm is so anti-dom3, it is the antithesis to the game, I guess it is mentioned therefore quite frequently? Anyways, you will lose quickly relying on black plates, although castling up and spitting the smiths out your ears can be very effective and fun. But this is not a good recommendation for a beginner, it plays so differently than most nations.

I would suggest picking the race you like themewise, check out any guides, then come back for some advice once you picked your nation.

Just some generally agreed on early game goals:
1. Try 15 provinces in the first year
2. Try building at least 1-2 castles (one should be finished, but this is varying on the nation and style)
3. Recruit mostly - that reads exclusiely except in the very first turns, maybe - mages from your forts.
- Take order 3 unless you know what you are doing. Pretender design is one advanced topic, try replicating a build from someone experienced, or ask advice on your first builds.

Generally it pays off to specialise in something you are good at, i.e. high hitpoint sacreds profit from regeneration (n4-8) and reinvigoration (e9, if they have armour) more than jaguars who are killing machines that like more attacks (w9, f9) blesses. If you have fear (lowers morale), stack awe on top (checks against morale before making an attack). You have shields, your opponent not, so massive archery can profit you. He has few hard hitters, use swarms of unarmoured high attack/high defense troops. He has high defense, use things that don't check defense like area of effect attacks, or missiles (unless he has a good shield, that is).

[Gandalf Parker]

Those all make sense. But they still seem to talk to the idea of learning how to play nations. What nation would you recommend as the FIRST nation so the person can learn how the game works, the buttons, the queues, the movement, etc without having to learn anything about the nation itself?

Im thinking human (we all know how to play humans?)
Troop and commander types that are likely to be known already. Basic scout, mage, priest, infantry.

This goes back to why I say programmers shouldnt write the game docs (thankfully Illwinter didnt do that for Dom3). By the time you are deep into the game, its hard to think like a newbie again. Many things seem "obvious" and dont need explanation.

[fantasma]

Gandalf, plain and simple the nation that most appeals to the player. Because he will stick to the game long enough to learn because he enjoys. Some like stomping around as a giant, others to swarm with little buggers. As long as you understand that you cannot survive with your capital alone it does not matter which nation to pick up the mechanics with.

[sector24]

I just want to reiterate that there is no need for multiple installs, I installed the game on a USB drive and can play it anywhere.

In my opinion the best starting nation is EA Niefelheim. The reason is that there are two main components to the game. The "civ" part of the game which is about empire management, recruiting troops and managing gold etc. Then there's the "magic" part of the game which is all about understanding spell paths, combat magic, forging boosters, path diversification, etc. The magic part is much more powerful but much more difficult to learn.

Your first nation should be able to stand tall based purely on the "civ" part of the game because the magic part is the most confusing. EA Niefelheim is perfect for that. EA Lanka, Hinnom, and Ashdod are also great for this. Once you understand how to search for magic sites, build forts, do basic army placement, etc. you can move on to a more magical nation.

[Foodstamp]

After reading the responses I think any of the nations are fine, just grab a nation and go, if you face an interesting enemy nation, play that one next.

[MunkieSuthorn]

Wow, I am taken back by the passion that everyone in this thread has shown regarding their thoughts about how a new player should approach the game. On any other forum that I have encountered this conversation would have degraded in a poke-in-the-eye-fest.

Going back to my original questions and the responses given you all have given what seems like feasible and well supported methods to get my feet wet and my mind to understand this detailed and in-depth game.

Just to summarize the answers to my questions:

Recommended Races:
ME Ulm – Allows new player to focus on game mechanics
MA Man – Massing Longbows allows for flexibility with pretender design
MA Ashod – Strong Race allows for a lot of leeway
EA Niefelheim – Strong Race allows for a lot of leeway, this race seems to have the most support
EA Abysia – Opposite number of Niefelheim, strong but fire based
Mictlans after understanding the game a bit
EA Ermor for experimenting with communions
EA Tien Chi for teaching basics

Game Configurations:
Easy Research
Few Random Events
Turn Up Independents to Prevent Swarm

Multiple Installs:
Might Experience Issues with MP Games
Run from a Thumb drive

Again, Wow! A diverse set of races but it seems the majority feel that the EA Niefelheim lend to a powerful army that allows a new player to pretty much be able to make mistakes without getting killed for them. I definitely take in to account the thought that a powerful race such as this also might lend to boredom in that there might not be a challenge. The thought that which theme will appeal to me will lend to a lasting appeal of the game in general makes sense. It seems everyone’s thoughts are well backed up, and they all seem to make sense.

I am going to keep this thread up while I create and play my next game and I will definitely give feedback from my experience so I might help others in the same boat as me.

Thanks again for taking the time to craft your responses, they are very appreciated and I will try and utilize them all in some manner.

Kindly,
Munkie!

[Torin]

I made a guide for this case taking my first experiences
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...523#post756523

[Squirrelloid]

Re: Getting bored with Nieflheim
Well, eventually you'll get bored of SP anyway, probably after a couple of plays. MP is where the meat of the game is.

Also, by the time you get bored stomping around as giants, that means you've figured out how to script (the mechanics, not the nuances), recruit, order units to do stuff in the map, research, etc... Which was the entire point of playing nieflheim in the first place - to use a very forgiving nation so you could figure out how the game works without getting trashed. So quit that game and start a new one. No point in continuing once the game has served its purpose.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Those all make sense. But they still seem to talk to the idea of learning how to play nations. What nation would you recommend as the FIRST nation so the person can learn how the game works, the buttons, the queues, the movement, etc without having to learn anything about the nation itself?

Im thinking human (we all know how to play humans?)
Troop and commander types that are likely to be known already. Basic scout, mage, priest, infantry.

Playing human nations in dom3 is hard. It doesn't matter that you recognize the unit types - that doesn't help at all. And its not like Nieflheim or the other power races don't have scouts, mages, priests, and infantry (such as it is).

In order to learn how the game works you want a nation that minimizes your need to understand tactics or the nuances of scripting so you can focus on just learning the mechanics of playing. Which means human races are generally a bad choice because they require an understanding of the magic system and often elaborate scripting for best performance. Nieflheim, otoh, runs on auto-pilot against the AI. You could literally not script and probably beat the AI. That's why its the best first nation, so you can figure out that scripting thing without having to worry about experimentation ruining you.

Also, Nieflheim's one notable weakness that the AI can exploit is the fact that its PD is awful. This is actually an advantage. It will stop you from getting into the bad habit of buying lots of PD (which works disturbingly well against the AI, but really terribly against human opponents).

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Honeybadger actually raises an issue with why EA TC is a bad beginner nation. Its got all that infantry with different equipment - and those differences matter. When its your first game, don't take a nation that requires you to think too hard about what troops to buy when you're still figuring out how to script. Seriously.

Your first game should run no more than 20-30 turns, possibly as few as 15, and leave you feeling like you know how to actually play the game. Then you can worry about how to play the game *well* and understand the strategic choices the game has to offer.