company of heroes

[Gandalf Parker]

Seduction tends to suck. Giving that cat charm is supposed to help. And maybe a focus item.
But in general, I dont like the chances on either seduction or assassination. Their advantage is forcing a one-on-one combat and making good use of that. Then spells like charm/hellbind get their chance which tends to work better (still not great, but better).

As I said, I have tended toward only using one or two of those, not more. That can often give you a chance to still defend yourself if they fail. Maybe an incineration rod or that 999 damage crossbow for that part. I know you want numbers and statistics but I suck at those. All I can offer is what Ive settled into after a long love of using it.

[Rookierookie]

I'm not sure how MR checks work for the spells, I think it's normal MR negates, and Bogus & Co have MR 12-18.

It has been said on the wiki - no verification - that succubus seduction makes MR check to 16.

Remember that when you do hellbind you still have blood slaves around you which may affect bodyguards. Lots of blood mages with hellbind *probably* have a somewhat better chance.

[chrispedersen]

I did extensive testing of the succubus seduction ability.
This value has bounced around a lot depending on the version of CBM. 1.3 had *very* effective seduction values.

Generally speaking however, seduction is not very effective at converting the opponent out right.

Generally, you will have better luck using charm, or hellbind once you have gotten to combat.

IF you really want to ensure success, it can be very helpful to send in sacrificial assassins with eyes of the void, and banners of the northern star. Each of these will lower MR by 2.

Generally, as others have noted, you want to get rid of the darknight, to increase your chances of seducing bogus... both the darknight and the archer aren't too hard to get rid of

Any reasonably armored /defensive mage casting shockwave, flaming hands etc will take out the dark mage. (in a regular combat)

after that you just retreat.. and then send in the seducers.

[thejeff]

But if you're trying to actually get them, especially more than one, seducers/assassins with Charm/hellbind aren't a good plan. You may get one, but then he'll fight the others. You're bound to lose some in the process.

The only way to guarantee eventual success is to keep using seducers set to retreat. You'll lose a lot of succubi, but won't risk the targets. This may take awhile and a lot of blood, so may not be worthwhile.

Your best bet probably is a lot of mages with Hellbind/Charm, penetration gear and lots of bodyguards, as suggested above. It'll be tricky, due to range and script limitations, to actually target all of them.
According to the probability chart in the manual (I'd forgotten that was in there), you've got a base chance of 6% against a mr of 18, 30% against 12, without penetration bonuses or extra paths. You want a lot of tries.

[chrispedersen]

nah, I really don't think that seduction offers that much in this instance.

With 5 commmanders to seduce, cant prepare as you don't know what you're going to get.

Whereas, if you just attack spamming charm (or better, enslave) you know..

the darknight will attack rear
the archer will shoot a mage
bogus will charge forward
and the other dude will summon ghost wolves etc.

so.. you have a guy with burning hands ready for the dark mage.
a sacrificial mage diseased etc for the archer.
void eye thug for the ghost wolves..
and then have some people spamming swarm charm enslave.

[thejeff]

But that's my point. You don't need to prepare, since you don't want to fight them. You want the seductions to succeed.
Which means you'll need to spam succubi at them, which probably isn't cost effective. Depends how badly you want them.

[chrispedersen]

jeff, there is no difference between charming/enslaving them in a fight, and seducing.

Sure, if you want to spend 5 guys at 8% = 6 turns turns per guy = 30 turns, and the slaves and gems for 29 succubi plus gear, yes, you can do it.

But any game you can afford to do that is a game you've already won and are just playing around.

Most of the time, there are only two of this crew that people care about - the archer (for his fire order) and bogarus.

These are the two that are easiest to charm in a fight - as they both come charging forward, and have high hitpoints. So they will naturally be targetted by charms etc.

[thejeff]

Right, but there is a difference between seducing them and charming them in the aftermath of a failed seduction. That difference is that the seduced go back to the capital and the charmed fight in the province. That's correct isn't it? I haven't tried it often.

And the OP specifically said he wanted the mages for alternate paths.

So the seduction is to seduce. No extra gear or empower needed on the succubi, since you don't want them fighting. I don't know what the seduction odds are, so I can't guess the number you'll need, but I assumed and said it would probably not be cost effective.

I would go for the fight, as you suggest.

[Gandalf Parker]

Correct about the diff between seduce and charm.
It does increase overall effectiveness, but might not meet the exact needs of the Original Poster

[Rytek]

In a mp game, its kind of cheesey to gain the heroes so you can copy their special orders. So, if it is a mp game, so much easier just to kill em and loot their equipment.