Mod: Kingdom of Angmar - Version 0.52 available

[LumenPlacidum]

Does it make more sense to have the Witch King as a unique summon, unique recruitable, or as an option for a pretender god?

Trumanator, what era were you going for for your Mordor nation? Maybe when I actually figure out what programs can edit .tga files I'll be able to share some of what I work on with you so you can get sprites out for yours. How were you dealing with the Nine in your mod?

[Squirrelloid]

Unique, probably summon. Pretender makes no sense - he serves Sauron. Pretender gods serve no one but themselves.

(Sauron would be the pretender - although arguably you can 'construct' a sauron with the current system. Although better graphics and tailored magic paths/abilities would be cool. Sauron at the time of Angmar is effectively 'imprisoned' in dom3 terms).

And pretenders make plenty of sense in middle earth terms. Its just by the time of the War of the Rings the Valar were not involved directly in the affairs of the world. One could argue the Istari are sort of like pretenders... Hmmm...

[LumenPlacidum]

Sure, in that the Istari were Maia. Maia were on the same order as the Valar, just of lesser magnitude. I view the Valar as equivalent to dominions Pantokrator but as a pantheon. Sauron is a perfect example of a pretender god: a somewhat lesser being trying to claim a throne that's really too much for himself.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by LumenPlacidum

Maybe when I actually figure out what programs can edit .tga files I'll be able to share some of what I work on with you so you can get sprites out for yours.

Almost any program can edit .tga files. I prefer GIMP because it's free but still has some quite advanced tools. As for sprite editing itself, first steps are the hardest. GIMP has a bit confusing command layout and learning the finer points of pixel art will take some practice.

For your first mod, one should try to stick as basic designs as possible. If you take a quick look at my first mod (Alugra, City of Wonders, see sig for link), you will see how the units basically are vanilla units with recolors,altered equipment and capes added. Like has been mentioned, Psientist has done a wicked sprite for both Nazgul and basic Orc (can be found in the Antilarium and Mytheology mods), you should consider using those as base sprites.

Like always, I'll also like to state that I'll give constructive feedback and suggestions to any sprites posted on the "Sprite Editing Tutorial" sticky thread. If you ran into some other trouble, you can post in the thread I mentioned or try to seek me up from the dominions3 IrC channel.

[thejeff]

I love the idea of the Witch King as a unique starting commander, more powerful than anything recruitable. That's a unique way to approach a nation.
Sauron should be the only available pretender and should only be taken imprisoned. I don't think there's a way to enforce that, but it could be strongly recommended in the descriptions.

The other Nazgul could be available as summons. They may not have been around Angmar, but that doesn't mean they couldn't come.

[LumenPlacidum]

Oh good, someone else likes the idea of having a unique thug commander to start with.

I was thinking making the witch king something like the following:

HP   30        Str  15
size  3        Att  15 = 14 + (1 weapon), ambidex 3
Prot  1        Def  18 = 14 + (3 mounted) + (1 weapon)
Mor  30        Prec 12
MR   18        Move  3 / 20
Enc   0      Good Leader/Undeadleader
S3D4H3
Sacred, Undead, NNE, Glamour (and stealthy +25), Coldres 100, Fireres -50
Darkpower 5, Fear +9 (4 from D4), Immortal, Ethereal, Darkvision 100

Weapon: Pale Blade (not sure what to make of this yet)
Armor: Crown

I could see him being the nation's only access to astral, and certainly the strongest access to death. Having him at the beginning would let the expansion go very well (especially if you could quickly forge armor for him), giving you more territory than others. However, I intend to make units somewhat less cost efficient for Angmar than what other nations enjoy, requiring those extra resources to have forces on par. This would result in ritual/forging goodness (because sites are based on number of provinces and gem costs independent of who's using them) and more strategic tension (since with more territory you need to be more wary of stretching yourself thin).

Other mages would probably include some sort of cap-only orc shamen, with passable death and fire access, as well as recruit-everywhere wildmen shamen with weak water and death magic. With only average researchers at the capitol and definitely sub-par ones elsewhere, Angmar will need more castles to keep up in research, which they can manage because of the extra SC to begin with. It should feel like a different dynamic than playing other nations.

With regards to encouraging the player to take an imprisoned pretender, it seems like the best ways of doing that are to give them good sacreds to encourage a huge bless (not doing this, there will be no non-commander sacreds), or to make it so they really need fantastic scales. Not sure how to do that. Of course, it shouldn't be necessary that any pretender the player takes should be imprisoned, but only that specific chasses encourage such activities. In fact, there could be multiple chasses representing Sauron in different stages:

Lord of the Rings : most powerful; titan-like SC who should be imprisoned.

The Lidless Eye : immobile, perfectly feasible awake or sleeping.

The Necromancer : research-based pretender that makes sense if it's awake (sort of).

Annatar : forging pretender, makes sense awake, due to timeline in the world.

Feedback would be appreciated.

[Squirrelloid]

The titan-SC is an invention of the movie. It has nothing to do with any of the real source material. I'd skip it.

If anything, possibly a shapechanging version (into a werewolf or vampire) would be more appropriate - see Beren's tale in the Silmarillion.

[LumenPlacidum]

Oh? I thought after corrupting Numenor, Sauron, like Melkor before him, could no longer change his form from that of a great dark lord. Kind of a punishment for leading men to break the Ban of the Valar. Either that or he couldn't be pretty again. Can't remember which.

Anyway, I'm starting to dissect some other peoples' mods to figure out what I'm doing in terms of mechanical changes. Is there any way to make sure I don't step on toes with unit numbers and such?

[Squirrelloid]

Couldn't change his form anymore, but that mostly meant he couldn't become pretty. The only story involving Sauron in a physical fight is Beren and Luthien, and then it involves shapechanging. In fact, afaict he never takes a form substantially larger than man-sized. (I haven't read all the collected notes books that Christopher Tolkien collected, in particular I haven't gotten to the War of the Ring book, but given how the ring and power in general is portrayed by Tolkien, something as vulgar as larger size seems unlikely).

[kianduatha]

It would be fun to have a 'pretty' Sauron too--very high pretender cost, but flying, stealthy and a corruptor, a la Lord of Civilization. Maybe immortal too, but low enough hp/stats that he wouldn't really work as a SC.