Armoured Car Tactics

[Imp]

Quote:

Where do people get off on quoting such utter bollocks from?

There seems to be some sort of voodoo folklore that some things have magical abilities because they are scout or recce or whatever.

A man in a scout team or armoured car has exactly the same Mk1 eyeball as a cook.

Andy

Its ex SPWAW players it cheats & gives recon units high tech eyeballs states it in there manual to

[PanzerBob]

I've always looked at AC's as a fast way to get a look at what's ahead or good units to cover your flanks with and they are cheaper than doing so with your Main Force Units. MC's even better and little more versitile.

Bob out

[Charles22]

Mobhack: Well maybe that's from SPWAW? Do you deny that there are units, even if they are not AC's in the recon class, which can see units better than others (IOW, spot them from further distances than other units)? I have clearly seen this demonstrated on the field, as stationary objects are not seen by typical tanks for instance, but put a unit not as blind the same distance away, say scouts, or even infantry for that matter, and they spot the otherwise hidden unit. Now it may be I have never seen this occur when both units (tank and scouts for instance) had the same level of experience and suppression, but those factors were very close even so.

[Lt. Ketch]

Infantry always spot better than AFVs. They don't have to peek through a 2" by 6" slit. That's one reason why you need to group the two so that Infantry can see the enemy and the AFV can shoot it. It's not due to any "recon" ability.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Mobhack: Well maybe that's from SPWAW? Do you deny that there are units, even if they are not AC's in the recon class, which can see units better than others (IOW, spot them from further distances than other units)? I have clearly seen this demonstrated on the field, as stationary objects are not seen by typical tanks for instance, but put a unit not as blind the same distance away, say scouts, or even infantry for that matter, and they spot the otherwise hidden unit. Now it may be I have never seen this occur when both units (tank and scouts for instance) had the same level of experience and suppression, but those factors were very close even so.

There are no units with magic abilities in the game.

All spotting comes from the normal SP spotting rules. Infantry on foot, or as passengers, tend to spot better than naked vehicles. Stationary units spot better than slow-moving which are better than fast moving. Experienced spot better than low experience. Suppressed less than unsuppressed.

Size 0 infantry units can get a hex or 2 closer, so may well notice things the other infantry have not yet seen. That may be part of why you think the scouts have magic elven vision, but they do not. It is just they they are closer-in.

Recce formations can have a few EXP points more, but that is usually only marginally better than line formations. Formations have zero to do with unit class, in any case.

Andy

[Charles22]

Thanks, but I do think there is a case along the lines I've said, only it resides in SPWAW, which as long as I played that game can sometimes get the more subtle differences mixed up with this game.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Charles22

Mobhack: Well maybe that's from SPWAW? Do you deny that there are units, even if they are not AC's in the recon class, which can see units better than others (IOW, spot them from further distances than other units)? I have clearly seen this demonstrated on the field, as stationary objects are not seen by typical tanks for instance, but put a unit not as blind the same distance away, say scouts, or even infantry for that matter, and they spot the otherwise hidden unit. Now it may be I have never seen this occur when both units (tank and scouts for instance) had the same level of experience and suppression, but those factors were very close even so.

I just want to make sure EVERYBODY who reads this is clear on what Andy said and I think it's important enough to repeat

Don

There are no units with magic abilities in the game.

All spotting comes from the normal SP spotting rules. Infantry on foot, or as passengers, tend to spot better than naked vehicles. Stationary units spot better than slow-moving which are better than fast moving. Experienced spot better than low experience. Suppressed less than unsuppressed.

Size 0 infantry units can get a hex or 2 closer, so may well notice things the other infantry have not yet seen. That may be part of why you think the scouts have magic elven vision, but they do not. It is just they they are closer-in.

Recce formations can have a few EXP points more, but that is usually only marginally better than line formations. Formations have zero to do with unit class, in any case.

[narwan]

A little addition concerning spotting by vehicles;

Not all vehicles have the same chance to spot. Just imagine you're in the vehicle in question, the more it's closed off, the less you'll see out of it. What it means is that basically an open topped vehicle will spot better than a closed top vehicle (easier to look around). A turreted vehicle will spot better than a none turreted vehicle. The number of crew also matters; more crew means more eyeballs means better spotting. A 2-men tankette (closed top, no turret and just 2 guys) is just about the worst spotting AFV in the game.


Back to the topic of armored cars, I like to use them as my main striking force. I've played a number of (PBEM) games where I had no tanks at all, just armored cars. In the north african desert the british even had an armored brigade (the 4th if I remember correctly) without a single tank. Just armored cars for armor. And while the british excelled at armored cars they're a valid option for a lot of nations. Combine them with armored infantry in fast APC's and go for broke. When done correctly, there's little that can stand against it.

And yes, you can kick the **** out of anyone with them, even if they bring panthers and tigers. Been there, done that. The regular 2-ponder an get through almost any side armor. The littlejohn 2-pounder is just a dream (one of those nice dreams, not the fake ones). Knocks out Panthers from the side at medium ranges. The 6-pounder gun needs little comment and the 15mm BESA is excellent for long range action against soft targets. The dingo is an excellent point 'guy' and useful for distracting the enemy. They even have some flak armored cars to go along.
Did I mention I just love armored cars? Who needs thick armor when you have speed and some decent firepower!?

Narwan

[PanzerBob]

Gee Narwan DID you mention you love Armoured Cars???

That gave me a laugh, you bought up some interesting points, although those kind of forces certainly need to be brought into action with skill and I imgaine some luck I would think. Little Johns and 6 pdrs on AC's can be a surprise to the unsuspecting enemy for sure, I've had a few WTF!! moments with them, mainly because AC's can be a little disarming especially in PBEM battles. I've been on both ends of that deal!!

Bob out

[Reset]

I think it all depends on mission type,what type of force you have chosen,enemy faced,and overall disposition to recon.

As an example i am trying out a armored infantry battalion,long campaign,during meeting engagements the scouts are never meant to engage but locate enemy forces then fall back upon the main force while keeping in contact,in the safest manner with the enemy.Thereby allowing the main force to meet them in the most advantageous manner possible.

During advance or assault their main mission is to move ahead of the main force then once shots are fired to fall back while the heavy lifters take up the slack.

During Defend and Delay they are to determine the main axis of advance..then fall back.

At no time should lightly armed/armored scout units fight it out,and even if they do their first priority should be to find a way out of the engagement with the least risk to themselves.

What they do allow you to do:

Setup roadblocks or ambushes.

Concentrate your forces to meet an oncoming force or to find a weak spot and once gain to concentrate your efforts and firepower on a breakthrough.

A single armored car or scout is as valueable as a platoon of infantry or armor.