Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

[chrispedersen]

I wasn't going to chime in - but I do have to beefs with CBM.

Summon umbrals at 7 - is too high. Thats the minor problem.
But A1 confusion is just absolutely ridiculous - especially with Caelum.

[KissBlade]

Eh ... nice guide but I think you might be underestimating the opponents here a bit Baalz. One of the weakest links I find about machaka is they're more or less helpless against raids of any sort. Heck they're the only ones I know of that still loses to call of wind. Remote attack spells devastate Machaka to a point where I'm almost considering mechanical militia mandatory. I too agree on the use of the spider riders (they seem the only feasible troop option for me) but I think you need to cover what to do against an early aggressor.

[MaxWilson]

Interesting point about the spiders + fever fetishes. I frequently find Enchantresses in my games, so forging the Fever Fetishes isn't the hard part, but apparently the upkeep cost (and micro) is. That suggests that Machaka's advantage is really the cheap Spider Lords. In vanilla they're 100 gp, but if I'm reading your post right they're 50 in CBM. 13 HP in man form, 26 in spider form. Assuming for simplicity that you get 1 gem per HP of life except the final HP, and also assuming for simplicity that you take the fever fetish off on the last turn, let him die, and have to buy a fresh one:

CBM Spider Lord, 38 gems, cost 93 gold. That means you're turning gold into gems at 2.45:1 gold:gem ratio. Not bad.

The rest of these numbers are going to be vanilla--you can adapt them for CBM as needed but I'm curious enough to crank them.

(Niefelheim) Jotun Scout, 31 gems, cost 103 gold. That's 50*(1+32/30). The ratio is 3.3:1, and of course it's harder to find someone to forge the gems. Note that it gets cheaper for Niefelheim if you have an N blessing, because you can just drop a Call of the Winds or something on yourself and heal all those sacred units back up instead of re-purchasing them.

Ashdod Kohen, (70 * (1 + (35 / 30))) / 34 = 4.46078431:1. Edomite scouts are 35*(1+21/15)/20 = 4.2 but you can't heal them back up.

Regular indy scouts, 20*(1+10/15)/9 = 3.7:1. The micromanagement will of course be painful.

EA Helheim Vanherse (just for fun), 160*(1+14/15)/13 = 23.8:1. (Don't use Vanherses for fetish farming.)

Lanka, Bandar Commander, 50*(1+21/15)/20 = 6:1.

EA Agartha Ancient Lord, 90*(1+44/30)/43 = 5.2:1. But, aha! Pale One Scout is 20*(1+20/15)/19 = 2.45:1. So Agartha will be as good at fetish farming as Machaka (on a per-cost basis), if you can find someone to forge the fetishes.

Overall, it looks like Machaka is tied with Agartha for being the best at fever fetishes (unless CBM changes the other units too sufficiently), but indy scouts aren't so terrible that they're not usable, unless my simplifications threw off the results (I'm not really sure how diseased you have to get for the fetish income to become reliable). A fever fetish income of 100 gems a turn only costs 370 gold/turn. Also, Niefelheim turns out to be surprisingly good at fever fetishes, if they can find an enchantress to do the forging.

BTW, you might as well use your indy scouts for blood-hunting while they're fevering to death. The blood hunting success formula doesn't care if you're crippled, diseased, and feeble-minded.

Edit: fixed factual/math error (Spider Lords have 13 HP not 10, which makes Agartha competitive).

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

Originally Posted by vfb

Good point on the Apostacy! I can never remember who gets that. MA or LA Ermor, or both?

I checked and LA doesn't have it. Its a MA Ermor spell only.

[cleveland]

All hail Baalz, The Pathfinder, Master of the Guides, He who Stole cleveland's Thunder



Haha, just kidding. Serves me right for trying to keep my Chlorolera strat a secret. But keep your grubby paws off of MA Man!!!

You smashed it out of the park, as always. I do have some criticisms, the most important of which is related to the referenced thread, but I'm going to wait until Chlorolera gets a bit more mature to voice them. Well done!

[Baalz]

@Executor - Real SCs are gonna be hard. Wraithlords are an option, though they're a little light. As already mentioned poison golems are within reach, though again on the lighter side of SCs. Again already mentioned, but elemental royalty is a good bet, and you'll have lots of options for swarms of thugs and anti-SC tactics. You're not going to be using SCs as your central theme at any point though, which is a big part of why you can't let the game drag on to the point that they really dominate everything - at that point there isn't much you can do to be too competitive.

@vfb - yes, the MR on the spiders is a big problem, though it's less of a problem at 30 gold than 125 (for black hunters). The whole point of all that fancy footwork though is that you've got lots of options to switch to if your opponent is fielding anything which dominates the spiders - of which there are several. Likewise if your opponent is spamming lots of strong anti-undead stuff you'll not want to invest in kitted bane lords - use those death gems for skull staffs instead.

@Thejeff - I find the black sorcerer thugs a bit of a fun gimmick rather than a very effective thug. You don't want to equip anything other than misc items if you plan on switching to a spider (you'll lose them), which doesn't leave much that's terribly effective. I'm certainly open to someone proving me wrong, but I haven't been able to make this effective yet.

@Kissblade - yes, Machaka has probably the worst PD in the game, arguably even worse than the much maligned monkey PD. They're not *that* bad though, putting up 10 PD all over (which is not hard at all with the scales and strategy outlined here) will handily chase off birds and most remote spells, if you're talking about ghost riders, horrors etc. then it doesn't really matter what PD you have. You've also got swarms of upkeep free spiders so sprinkle them all around and if you're *still* having problems with raiders leverage your absurd number of sorcerers and sprinkle those about with small amounts of your upkeep free summons. As your research ramps up you've also got options for ritual spells to handle raiders from earth attack/manifestation to fires from afar.

@Maxwilson - yes, but also keep in mind one of the big advantages Machaka has is dwarven hammers and everything needed to start making fever fetishes as soon as the very low hurdle of construction-2 is cleared. There are a couple ways to generate gems in dominons, from bloodstones and clams to sea kings. The compelling thing to me about this strategy is the efficiency and speed with which it comes out, and thus the ability to generate a large gem income by the point in the game small amounts of gems are very valuable. EA Argatha (or anybody else really) would almost never be able to crank out fever fetishes in the first year, and if we're talking about 10-15 produced in the first year, that's hundreds of extra gems by the end of year 3. Good suggestion on the blood hunting BTW.

@Cleveland - Ok, MA Man strat next. I'll try to post it tomorrow. Kidding...

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Baalz

@Maxwilson - yes, but also keep in mind one of the big advantages Machaka has is dwarven hammers and everything needed to start making fever fetishes as soon as the very low hurdle of construction-2 is cleared. There are a couple ways to generate gems in dominons, from bloodstones and clams to sea kings. The compelling thing to me about this strategy is the efficiency and speed with which it comes out, and thus the ability to generate a large gem income by the point in the game small amounts of gems are very valuable. EA Argatha (or anybody else really) would almost never be able to crank out fever fetishes in the first year, and if we're talking about 10-15 produced in the first year, that's hundreds of extra gems by the end of year 3. Good suggestion on the blood hunting BTW.

Sure, for all the reasons you've outlined, Machaka is clearly the best at fever fetishing. I was just curious enough to crank the numbers to see how *much* better it is--that endgame you describe (hundreds of fire gems per turn) is attainable by anyone who can stand the micro and has access to nature gems, and you won't even know it until EA C'tis or Caelum starts slamming you with dozens of Phoenix Rods and a Flames From the Sky every turn.

-Max

Edit: to put it another way, I've never bothered with fetishing before but you've convinced me that maybe I should look into it even if I'm not playing Machaka.

[Ironhawk]

A bold and interesting strat, baalz! I'm curious to see how it plays out. I'm twice tempted cause I've always wanted to see drakes as part of a workable combat force.

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

... and you won't even know it until EA C'tis or Caelum starts slamming you with dozens of Phoenix Rods and a Flames From the Sky every turn.

-Max

Another of the things I liked about this is volcanic eruption, raging hearts, flames from the sky, etc. are all anonymous so it's not hard to imagine you could leverage a steady stream of them to cripple nations you're not actively at war with but expect to eventually be (best time to decapitate their income). >

[DeathDaemon]

Great guide Baalz! I would like you and/or the community to comment on the strategy of self-buffed combat sorcerers w/ little or none crafted items and then charging in to become spiders. I remember using them like that in Dom2, but not for years now... Have you had too many losses for this strategy or do you not find them as effective as researching and then using them as mages?