Mod: Kaleva, Songs of Sorcery - 0.87 released

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

> Sorry that you and I seem to be the only ones interested in this very nice mod Endo.

No way!

I'm interested! More than in most mods! I just avoid interfering in your creative processes

Thanks for the kind words! I wouldn't mind little interference, though, if anyone thinks they can offer it.

As an example, I'd like to know if Herdsmen are too weak without helm and shield, if Hakkapelite are as good as I tried to make them, if Moose Brothers are too good for their price and if there are any problems with summons, or with unit descriptions or sprites.

Speaking of descriptions, Jotunheim is pretty close to Pohjola described in Kalevala. When I expand Väinämöinen's description, I'll have to mention that Angerboda sent Tjatse after him when he stole Sampo back from Pohjola. In Kalevala, the crone herself transformed into a giant eagle, but I guess the heroes just made a mistake. :P

I'm somewhat disappointed with myself because I didn't manage to incorporate any Sami mythology in the nation. I might create an EA version, some day, with reindeers, more mobility, shamans transforming into various animals, and perhaps little something from LA Atlantis.

[Herode]

Interesting mod for sure ! I'll try it with the Kullervo Symphonie as background, or maybe the Tapiola suite ?

One strange thing here, I don't know if it's a bug in the mod or a bug in its own :

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Herode

Interesting mod for sure ! I'll try it with the Kullervo Symphonie as background, or maybe the Tapiola suite ?

One strange thing here, I don't know if it's a bug in the mod or a bug in its own :

Could it be a mod conflict? This mod uses unit nrs 2800 - 2820. I think I'll change them to 3800-3820 before 1.00.

[Herode]

Could be. My activated mods are :
- Worthy Heroes
- Streamers & standards, Llama's version

But : I've just created a new game without Worthy Heroes and the bug still displays.

[edit]OK, WH disabled + close and re-open the app => no more bug [/edit]

[Herode]

Small typo : the wis-men are also known because they have knowledge etc...

I'm trying the Kaleva with a Titan, just for fun.

[Herode]

OK the ! First thoughts on the mod after the initial moves.

I play Kaleva on Bering with a Titan A5 E1 D2 awake. Standard settings, AI difficult (OK, not so difficult ). As there are no sacred units, I didn't think it was useful to take a sleeping pretender except for scales.

My scales are Dom7 / Sloth2 / Cold1 / Growth2 / Luck2 and the starting income is pretty weak (< 300$) but the troops are cheap.

I plan to use the Titan as researcher in the first place. I buy mainly Moose Brothers at the start, and mages. Mages are powerful, good researchers, the magic research leads me to Alt2 in a few turns thus allowing my Titan to cast Mirror Image, and soon Mistform. For an early game, I'll soon be able to use it on the battle field.

Nevertheless, expansion goes very fast since Moose Brothers are almost invulnerable. Even heavy cavalry hardly wounds them with their Def16. Their Mov24 on the field allows them to butcher any rear/flying unit. Their multiple attacks makes them dreadful opponents to meet. I'm not sure I'll need any other troops than this one

General evaluation for the units I tried : IMHO, Moose Brothers are far too powerful for their prices. They make Kaleva a rush nation and a real super-heavy powerhouse for early game at least. Huntsmen (stealth +35 ! for 35$ + 15res) make scouts of no use as recruitable troops in the capitol. Mages are very cheap also considering that Wisemen & spellsingers are powerful mages & excellent researchers. I've not tried Hakkapelite yet but considering the power of Moose Brothers, I'm not going to buy these guys for a while. Just MB in masses.

I think you could rise the prices for all these units and make most of them capitol only. Maybe give them some weaknesses (lower morale & Gluttony for MB, etc.). But it's still very early game and I'm not an elite player, so this opinion could be re-evaluated by more gurulike forumists.

As for the other aspects : units and description give a good flavour of the Finnish myths (AFAIK and I'm not a specialist...) and I really look forward the further evolution of your mod. Thanks for the work, Endo.

[Lingchih]

Yes, regrettably, the price on the moose brothers should probably go up. I wouldn't nerf them in any way, just make them more expensive. I did manage to get a few killed... first one vaetti dies, then the second, then you just have a moose that runs away after the battle. Against a real player though, I think you would see some ways to stop them. The AI just doesn't know what to do, as is the case with many powerful units.

The herdsmen are quite weak. I've been using them as a meat shield, but I have to keep going back to a castle and filling up because they die so quickly.

The Hakkapelite are also very good. I stopped making moose brothers after I had enough of them. (partly because the moose brothers were just running over everything in sight). I think they are well balanced for their price. How about a little flame burst when they kick? Would that be hard to do?

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Herode

General evaluation for the units I tried : IMHO, Moose Brothers are far too powerful for their prices.
Huntsmen (stealth +35 ! for 35$ + 15res) make scouts of no use as recruitable troops in the capitol.
Mages are very cheap also considering that Wisemen & spellsingers are powerful mages & excellent researchers.

Moose Brothers changed. It seems the shield makes much bigger difference than I thought.
I increased encumberance of first form to 6 and second to 4, removed kick attack from first form and slightly lowered defence on the second form. I also slightly increased resource costs of Hiisi and Moose Brothers.

I think the encumberance change alone does the trick. If not, I can increase their cost or make them capital-only.

I forgot I gave them normal scouts as recruitables. I've given them thematic scouts and sacred hunter-chiefs.

Originally Posted by Lingchih

The herdsmen are quite weak. I've been using them as a meat shield, but I have to keep going back to a castle and filling up because they die so quickly.

The Hakkapelite are also very good. I think they are well balanced for their price. How about a little flame burst when they kick? Would that be hard to do?

I'll give Herdsmen leather caps. I removed them because I noticed the sprite didn't have them. Lazy me. :P

Flaming hoof would be very simple to do. Hakkapelite actually had flaming hoof attack for some time, but it'd make them cost more, and I decided non-sacred units with no resistances and mr of 10 shouldn't be made too expensive.

[Lingchih]

Still working on this Endo? I'd like to test out the revisions.

[HoneyBadger]

Honestly, when I finally get a computer (and I am getting closer), this will be the first mod, other than my own for balancing reasons, that I'll try. It's also inspired me to actually read the Kalevala-something that never really entered into the crosshairs of my perception, before this came out-so you're doing a fantastic job.