Fire Bola vs Thunder Bow

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by vfb

Yep, that's what I thought, and I tested it out.

With a "Wand of Wild Fire" or whatnot, both Jade Armor and Boots gave double the spell casting.

With missile weapons, the unit would sometimes fire, and sometimes inch towards the target, eating APs.

5 round combat:

# of fireballs wearing boots of quickness: 10
# of fireballs wearing jade armor: 10
# of bow shots wearing boots of quickness: 8
# of bow shots wearing jade armor: 5
# of shots, wielding 2 bolas wearing boots of quickness: 14
# of shots, wielding 2 bolas wearing jade armor: 10

I dunno, maybe something was wrong with my tests.

Hmmmm. How did you script? I seem to get less of the "inching forward" effect if I Fire Closest. The 2 Bolas + Jade Armor result is pitiful though. And it makes me wonder if I should resurrect my thread that was trying to figure out if there is something wrong with the way that Quickness works.

[vfb]

Scripted 'Fire Closest'. Strength 25 units, at attacking edge of army placement setup. Defenders scripted to 'Guard Commander', also at attacking edge. Turning the grid on shows max 13 grid spaces from enemy army left-right, and 3 grid spaces up-down.

1st round:
Both casters cast double fireballs.
Both bows fire.
Bow units and bola units advance 3 grid spaces to enemy.
Boots bow fires again.
Boots bolas fire once.

2nd round:
Both casters cast double fireballs.
Both bow units fire.
Both bola units fire.
Bow units and bola units advance 3 grid spaces to enemy.
One bola unit fires.

I just can't get the archers to stop creeping towards the enemy, even the thunder bow units. Maybe because I'm using Golems?

But, like I said before, in an actual game I tried the Bolas and wasn't impressed, so I didn't do more extensive testing.

I think Quickness is working properly in that it doubles the base AP. But if your unit moves, he may not get in an attack if he doesn't have enough AP left.

[JimMorrison]

OMG I just wrote one of my typically long replies - and my mouse mysteriously went to the Post Reply button above, instead of the much stealthier Post Quick Reply button below. And of course, it ate the post.

To sum up my thinking - my best guess is that there is some sort of artificial "need to move" script involved with giving a unit Quickness. The act of casting a spell is supposed to override Quickness, so scripting to use the magic items bypasses that "need to move". Best I can come up with.

[TwoBits]

Very interesting results on how quickness differs with Jade Armor vs Boots. Hm, looks like I'll need a 'caddy' to come along, and try out the difference between Bow and Bola, Jade and Boots. Thanks for the tips, you guys.

[HoneyBadger]

The armour and the boots ought to give the same exact benefit. Waterbless quickness, and maybe spell-obtained quickness should be different from forged-items quickness.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

The armour and the boots ought to give the same exact benefit. Waterbless quickness, and maybe spell-obtained quickness should be different from forged-items quickness.

The armour and boots give the exact same Quickness attribute, that's true.

If you wore the boots and some other heavy armor (Elemental), you'd end up with the same AP in the end as if you'd worn Jade Armor. The problem is that wearing heavy Armor subtracts from your AP, and Jade Armor is heavy. When you're building a missile dude, it's better to give him boots, because AP is used up if he moves at all towards the enemy.

The boots and armour effect is exactly the same effect as the Quickness spell: +100%AP,+3Att,+3Def. The W9-bless only gives you +50% AP,+4Def.

Here's a link to a previous analysis of quickness and AP:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...359#post579359

[JimMorrison]

Only use the Jade Armor on mounted commanders. Else, use Boots, spells, bless, or nothing.

<3

For a melee SC, I suppose it's somewhat debatable. If you expect him to be swarmed, the reduction in BAP won't matter, he should still get 2 attacks every round if he can make them without any movement. If they have to move at all, Jade Armor is just a bad joke. Remember for a non-mounted commander, he's going to suck up a LOT of fatigue from that as well. Suggest Soul Vortex or Relief in conjunction with that terribly heavy armor.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Only use the Jade Armor on mounted commanders. Else, use Boots, spells, bless, or nothing.

<3

For a melee SC, I suppose it's somewhat debatable. If you expect him to be swarmed, the reduction in BAP won't matter, he should still get 2 attacks every round if he can make them without any movement. If they have to move at all, Jade Armor is just a bad joke. Remember for a non-mounted commander, he's going to suck up a LOT of fatigue from that as well. Suggest Soul Vortex or Relief in conjunction with that terribly heavy armor.

Jade Armor is fine for zero-encumbrance thugs that won't be doing tons of self-buffing, like Bane Lords or Poison Golems or GORed Gargoyles. A Black Servant could be good too if you pumped his MR to avoid banishment.

I don't like to give Jade Armor to mounted commanders because their HP is so low ... it doesn't take much to get whacked, and then you've got a good chance of those gems just falling down the drain.

Has anyone ever tried GORing a Troll Moose Knight?

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by vfb

Jade Armor is fine for zero-encumbrance thugs that won't be doing tons of self-buffing, like Bane Lords or Poison Golems or GORed Gargoyles. A Black Servant could be good too if you pumped his MR to avoid banishment.

I don't like to give Jade Armor to mounted commanders because their HP is so low ... it doesn't take much to get whacked, and then you've got a good chance of those gems just falling down the drain.

Has anyone ever tried GORing a Troll Moose Knight?

With 0Enc commanders, you only get the benefit of no fatigue. The Encumbrance value is still subtracted from their AP pool, so you still get the terrible synergy there.

I seem to remember I did a GoR on a Moose Rider once upon a time. It was just a screw around game though, and I don't think I even geared him out, I was just exploring GoR, seeing what kind of results I could get. I'm pretty sure he was worth the gems though, and would make a fine hanger for a suit of Jade Armor. :P