Idea for new oceanic terrain types.

[Gandalf Parker]

The thing about putting sea with swamp brings up a good point. Can some of these be logically placed by mixing bits we have now? Farm and sea? waste and sea? inland water with something?

[HoneyBadger]

Rivers would be great for sites, but which ones? Water's obvious, but at the same time, the water's constantly moving, and washing away most sites in time, plus rivers themselves might not be large enough to support many types of sites, even if we're talking about the Amazon. And in that case, with very large rivers made up of many tributaries, it's no longer a river, it becomes a Confluence. Besides, my thought for rivers is that they'd generally be valuable enough, serving as easy access to inland provinces, and as roadways.

I *was* trying for some parity between land and sea terrains, actually, Gandalf. I'm not sure how obvious it is, but if what we have now could be renamed and placed in the water, or even just shoe-horned in, it might work.

[Edratman]

Gandalf Parker said:
The thing about putting sea with swamp brings up a good point. Can some of these be logically placed by mixing bits we have now? Farm and sea? waste and sea? inland water with something?

I found that the massive Orieda map has two provinces that mix land and sea features. One is farm and sea and the other is waste/mountain/sea. The provinces funcion okay and have those atributes, so I asume every combination of land attributes and sea attributes is okay. After all, they are just bits, not real, so the game doesn't know that the combinations defy the dev's intentions.

So a deep sea underwater mountain range is viable. I think you would have to input the bit combination into the map file.

[MaxWilson]

Edratman said:
After all, they are just bits, not real, so the game doesn't know that the combinations defy the dev's intentions.

True. Keep in mind, however, that the combinations also defy the intentions of magic sites' authors (whether the devs or some modder), and you are likely to get magic sites underwater which don't make much sense. E.g. sites which allow the recruitment of non-aquatic creatures who will drown as soon as you recruit them.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

Doesnt it also affect what poptypes defend and can be recruited?
I would be much more bothered by inconsistancies there.

[HoneyBadger]

That might take specific work to implement, as in directly modding provinces to reflect their underwater status. But for all that hard work, I bet a large amount of creative energy could shine through. I mean, if one chooses to make such a map, and in the process is forced to mod every underwater province, there's a good chance-depending on the person-that they'll make atleast some of the provinces more interesting, if only to save themselves from death via boredom.

[Edratman]

I've only been aware of the two provinces for 3 games. The poptypes have always been aquatic types. Nor have I encountered any sites that conflict, but undoubtedly that could be an issue. I do not know how the game actually reads the bits to determine sites and/or poptypes. There is a possibility that the sea component of the bit description will negate land poptypes and sites, but there is also the possibility that it doesn't.

I will have to defer to someone with more knowledge.

[Endoperez]

This is what I meant before:



Sailers can sail above it, land units can't enter, aquatic and amphibious units can enter. I didn't check if non-swamp-survival amphibious units get swamp terrain penalties, but I quess they do.

With this (and special sites):


Coastal Plane: Impossible.
River: It would be nice if rivers could be defined somehow. There are large and small provinces; perhaps rivers should always be large?
Shallow Sea: coastal seas?
Coral Barrier: can't stop sailing, but sea/forest/farmland?
Sea Basin: also known as sea?
Confluence: Very high chance of Holy and Water Sites, average otherwise - this is interesting. Something similar might happen if the sea had the Freshwater tag? Possibly it would just slightly boost income and allow "There have been floods and XXX people have drowned" events.
Deep Trench: Also known as deep sea? Alternatively, also known as Gorge of Glowing Wish.
Sargasso: (forest of kelp) High in Resources, Supply, low in gold, sites, except for Nature sites, which are high.
Sea Cave: Sea + Cave could be done, but sailing would be allowed. Maps could be constructed so this wouldn't matter (e.g. sea/cave province connecting two seas with each other, with no or at most one land neighbour)
Tumulous: Can't stop sailing, sea + border mountain
Salt Marsh: Swamp + Sea
Seamount: Mountain + Sea

[Zeldor]

You get bad things with magic sites when you mix land and sea terrains. You cannot mix even caves and sea.

[JimMorrison]

Mountain and sea works nicely. One of the major hurdles that aquatics tend to face, is resource anemia. Adding a Mountain tag significantly increases resources to a sea province, as can be seen in The Lonely Mermaid Map, for example.