How to beat Late Age Ermor?

[Kuritza]

Ironhawk said:
Kuritza, ermor relies on masses of cheap undead to win. But in the late game, masses of troops no longer matter. Access to the high level spells and SCs makes them obsolete.

Really? In the endgame, mages become invulnerable and no longer need a meat shield to absorb hits?
Sorry, quite the opposite. In the endgame, quality of the troops doesnt matter as much, and quantity is where Ermor rules supreme. Not to mention that Ermor can also use SCs (death gems, right?), counter your SCs with lifedrain and desintegrate and support his masses of undead with Darkness.
Just look at the statistics - LA Ermor owns.

[Twan]

LA Ermor has two moments of vulnerability :

- very early game against rush nations with mages-priests (so even the researchers they recruited before seing Ermor can bannish) and cheap/numerous sacreds with a correct bless (ideally water 9) ; Atlantis, Mictlan, etc... have no difficulty to erase Ermor if they start close

- beginning of late game against nations having the edge in research and able to use anti-undead or anti-chaff spells (wither bones, solar brillance, or even mass elemental/mundane dammages...) and communions to boost priests ; but once Ermor has hordes of tartarians etc... it's not sufficient

[sector24]

If you don't mind exploiting a bug, forge a crystal matrix for a holy priest (with no other paths, only holy). Group him with at least 2 astral mages scripted to cast communion slave. The priest will banish 3 times per round instead of 1. This is very easy for Bogarus, and the more slaves, the bigger the banish.

In a more general sense, you can't beat Ermor with troops. You have to use magic, either large amounts of conventional mages with troops as blockers, small communions to cast battlefield wide spells like Solar Brilliance with expendable chaff to block, or a global like Purgatory with lots temples and dominion spread. (Is it Purgatory that blasts undead in your dominion? I don't remember). Fighting Ermor with troops is always a losing endeavor for two reasons:

1) Their troops are free
2) Their mages spam raise dead in the backfield, so you're actually fighting an army about 50% larger than the listed number.

[Halancar]

Banishing works, but you have to realize that it scales hugely with priest level.

A level 1 priest casting banish will kill, as a rule of thumb, one or two basic undead a round, and you have maybe 10 to 15 rounds untill your meat shield routs, so you would need one priest for every 10 to 15 undead to win that battle.

On the other hand, a level 3 priest should be good for 10+ undead killed by round, so one for every 100 undead should do the trick nicely. Plus, they can switch to smite to deal with any thug that won't let themselves be banished.

And of course, getting higher levels is even better. So whip out communions if you can, equip mage-priests with crystal shields, empower ordinary priests with blood 1, do whatever you need to get those levels up !

[MaxWilson]

Ironhawk said:
Aldrenas: can you go into more detail about what thugs you are using? I have not fought LA ermor myself (due to objections over thier dominion) but from what I understand the conventional way to fight them is with massed banishments. And the way to use thugs vs them is pretty much any chasis plus a fire shield and regen.

Supposedly, Phoenix Pyre spreads the fatigue from dying among communion slaves just like spell fatigue. I'm pondering trying the following in my current game (vs. LA Ermor):

Get a bunch of cheap S1 mages.
Have them cast Communion Slave.
Communion masters cast Fire Shield, Phoenix Pyre, Summon Earthpower, Personal Luck. Then they either retreat or start firing bows or something.
Communion slaves all Attack Closest.

Phoenix Pyre is pretty weak but it has a huge area of effect that should mess LA Ermor up pretty good. Of course it would be more efficient to use all those massed communion slaves to cast H4 Banishment--but this way sounds like more fun.

-Max

[JimMorrison]

If you can get Air in there as well, could add Mass Flight.

And Maybe toss in Body Ethereal? Not sure what the relative benefits of delaying the explosions might be, though if the undeads mass up around the slaves nicely.....

Also Fire Ward could be good if you had access, I'm under the impression that chain explosions can make that strat very showy, but ultimately less effective than hoped.

[Alderanas]

ok so the consensus is to use communion? I love fighting LA ermor but they always beat the crap out of me. Is communion the spell that lets one mage use all the other mages on the battle fields power?

[Alderanas]

one other question that i have. Do burden of time and foul air effect lifeless creatures the same as they would an undead creature?

[Alderanas]

I am not really sure i have ever used communion. my usual tactic is to overwhelm my opponents with lots of powerful soldiers and many different types of mages spewing as many different deadly spells as possible.

[Ironhawk]

Kuritza said:
Just look at the statistics - LA Ermor owns.

Don't need to. IMO, LA Ermor shouldnt ever be used in MP due to its dominion. Breaks the gameplay.