Hall of Shame

[Omnirizon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[Zeldor]

Amhazair:

Maybe in really late game things like that happen, though they are surely not normal.

Of course he can do the backstabbing. Even in early game. Just instead of helping your ally just attacking him. I see that you approve things like that

That game has quite small community. And there are many games that you play. If you do thing like that once you must be aware that it won't be just forgotten. "I will backstab someone today and easily find allies next time I need them" - things don't work that way You are either ***** [insert what you want here ] that will do absolutely everything to get one more province or you are someone that can be trusted and count in hard times [and vice versa].

[Amhazair]

Zeldor said:
...Just instead of helping your ally just attacking him. I see that you approve things like that

Now where did you get that idea from?

Going back again at my previous experience: The boardgaming community I was talking about is obviously a lot smaller than the one here in Dominions, maybe about a dozen people. Of course making a habit of betraying people, fickleness, unsteadfastness (is that even a word? ) betrayal for little gain, etc. will get you a reputation. Of course people will remember when you come out to help them against difficult odds, and when you suddenly seem completely unable to help out because you're suddenly very, VERY busy examining the probability of the existence of alien life forms in your hankerchief or are otherwise 'pressingly' occupied. (note however that 'not actively helping out your ally seems to be a very common occurence about these parts, more common than I had experienced before, and since this doesn't violate the formulaic '3 turn NAP kthx' that is so common here, noone seems to mind that)

I never meant to imply I took alliances lightly. A good ally/alliance is a wonderful thing.

But if someone pulls a truly game-winning betrayal out of his hat, my only reaction will be admiration (and maybe a little 'damn, why didn't I prepare for that one') and the general reaction of the gamers I knew before comming here would be the same.

[Zeldor]

Amhazair:

Now we understand But if it really some game-winning tactics on turn 24, which involves losing your pretender, then I will be shocked. Betraying your ally in late game so you can win is another thing, though I would never do that.

[Amhazair]

Zeldor said:
But if it really some game-winning tactics on turn 24

Yeah, I was talking in general, I don't feel the need to be drawn into (possibly bitter) arguments of specific cases where I was not involved and know nothing about. And who knows, the turn 24 betrayal might be the beginning of a cunning plan of titanic proportions that will unfold before the unbelieving, but ultimately helpless eyes of all players involved.

Even if it isn't, as you said, this is a newbie game. Who knows what kind of gaming background players have. While I understand if you are somewhat suspicious of him in the future, (and I probably would be too) but I would definitely offer him a chance to convince me of his good intentions in possible future games. (But then again my own mother tells me I'm way too na�ve for this cruel world )

[Omnirizon]

an interesting read on diplomacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinksmanship

guess why America's old "allies" are not so friendly anymore, and why nobody really listens to America.

[Foodstamp]

Omnirizon said:
an interesting read on diplomacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinksmanship

guess why America's old "allies" are not so friendly anymore, and why nobody really listens to America.

Because people have short memories. As an American, I don't care if you want to listen to us. What I do care about is the fact many of our ancestors died saving your (not necessarily you) countries from fascist dictators and such, yet since it did not happen during your generation, "who gives a crap".

Omnirizon, don't take this as me meaning you or your country in particular, it is used as a generic here. You could very well be a liberal American because they hate our country too. jk

[Twan]

Lol. It's like me with americans, what I do care is that their ancestors never entered a war to support their european allies without being personnally attacked first (I wonder if they know that 1914-18 war didn't started in 1917, nor 39-45 in 1941). But anyway some of them try to culpabilize any non-attacked european ally not helping in their own offensive wars.

(Anyway all this real world trolling is totally out of topic.)

[thejeff]

There's only so long we can rest on our laurels. That was 60 years ago. Should we get a free pass if we do stupid things now?

Besides, real friends will tell you when you're being stupid or wrong.

[kasnavada]

Yeah, real world troolling... it always amaze me that Europe should be somehow "thankful" to the USA for their efforts in the 20th century wars when the conveniently forget the help they recieved them a few century before. In my opinion, it's better to forget about old grudges and that kind of stuff, and just get along, but the higher-up seem to be of another mind (all the fuss about irak ring a bell ?).

Not that it has any point either way : in a few decades, the Usa will be in the exact same position as Europe is now. A decadent place full of pride but with little decisional power or influence. And another place will rise to take its place and commit the same mistakes over and over again : try to impose its way of life over the whole world.

About the game "hall of shame", I think it's rather pathetic to make one. It's just a conflict of opinion and common sense. An example : ganging up 3 to 1 isn't evil, in fact, it saves a lot of the country military, avoid unrest, reduces unrest and civilian casualties, and repercussions due to being at war. It also makes sense when you wish to win.

Another example : backstabbing. Making a hall of shame for that means that RP is dead. I don't really think I need to explain that.

It's "unfair" only if you believe that the game should be somehow "fair". But then, what you want to do isn't a war, it's a duel or a match. And, last time I've heard, Dominions is a war game, and in a war, the victor writes history. Anyway, in my opinion, the only things that would deserve being in a hall of shame would deserve being kicked from the game and forum altogether : failing to see the difference between game and reality (carrying grudges over games for example, or insults to the person and not to the avatar played), metagaming like hacking (today it's called social engineering though most of the time), and that's basically it.