LOS and spotting - Page 2

PatG · #11 April 18th, 2007, 10:05 AM

On one excercise, I was leading a section sized patrol back in. Our last task was to sweep the company fall back position - part of which was an open area about 50x50m with patches of grass to knee high, a little scrub and a few fallen logs. A kneeling person would be completely visible. We were stopped by a "friendly" master warrant officer as we approached the area and were specifically and repeatedly ordered not to sweep the area. Under protest we went back to our lines. Of course the obvious happened - we fell back right into the enemy platoon with support weapons hiding in the open ground we were ordered not to sweep. 8 pairs of eyeballs saw nothing.

I was later able to return the favour when I was bartending at the senior NCO's mess.

I'm very happy I never had to play for keeps and very grateful to all those who have done so or who are doing so right now.

MajorDisaster · #12 April 18th, 2007, 11:28 AM

I've never seen billiard flat "natural" fields either and absolutely agree that infantry and low profile weapons can be hidden/blended just about anywhere, those little furrows & burrows youre talking about. But a soldier is flexible, (bends to fit), and very small when prone, so can do that.
My point is about TALL hardware - if the landscape is devoid of buildings, trees, incredible tall grass, banks, holes or any other significant feature, you havent got many ways of disguising a medium tank, AA gun, howitzer, ... etc. And if a Sherman is disguised to look like a haystack etc, then you would in reality be able to see "the haystack", then decide what to do about it, which of course is beyond any games similar to this (thankfully). A single haystack in the middle of an area of uncultivated land might just arouse a little curiousity?

This says bit of video says so much ... cracks me up everytime :-)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...70357062149413

DRG · #13 April 18th, 2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

evan said:

Secondly I suspect that MajorDisaster may have hit on the key to the problem. only the Ai troops are equipted with virtual binouclars while we have to make do with our limited eye from above? DRG, possible?

NO, the AI does not have any kind of spotting advantage (or arty or any advantage over a human player) whatsoever. We have told people this repeatedly but the minute the AI does something "Smart" out come the accusations that we've given the AI an advantage. The AI DOES have a number of DISADVANTAGES such as not being able to use a priority arty hex or the adjust fire capabilty that humans have.

Don

DRG · #14 April 18th, 2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

dlazov said:

Not likely, I was sitting in M1A1 in a loaders hatch and I did not see the ****ers until they were 15 feet away, too much [censored] was happening and we were killing the big fish, I just happen to hear small arms on the side of the tank, popped up and [censored] there they were. All tankers hate infantry, especially infantry with AT weapons, the only thing we hate worse is [censored] jets with bombs, kinda hard to hide tank from a big jet with laser guided bombs.

Most infantry (at least the smart ones) don't want you to see them, until it's too late. I think it's called self-preservation, camouflage and ambush.

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

Thanks Don, do you think it might be possible for you to monitor both forums for us at all times and repeat this endlessly until everyone understands it

Don

dlazov · #15 April 18th, 2007, 09:59 PM

Meaning....

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

and

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

and

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

and so on until

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

rinse

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

repeat

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

and wash

Again, if you don't like LOS and spotting the way it's set at 100%, then don't ***** and say it's broke, change the preference to something that suits you, if you get spotted to easy turn it down, if it's too hard turn it up. Same with the toughness if you think the game is too hard, turn it down, or if it's way too easy turn it up. I have the AI at least a 10 point advantage over me, cause it's too easy to beat.

dlazov · #16 April 18th, 2007, 10:00 PM

I'll, try my best.....

MajorDisaster · #17 April 19th, 2007, 06:22 AM

Does that mean you can change the preferences then ? ;-)
Hey, I think a lot of the (subjective) comments on here are observations on how the game plays "out of the box, set to default". Isnt subjective comment what forums are about or have I got that wrong? The fact that you can tune it to suit is wonderful, (especially for this game genre), but I guess I have felt that's kind of "cheating" when I play any sort of game? Anyway, Im seriously and sadly engrossed in a campaign on the Russian front, with the current battle on a knife edge, so far I'm from thinking the game is broken, (wouldnt waste my time if it was... ) :-) Hell, I only got 13 tanks in my core and the ground is full of T34, rumbling under Katyusha barrage and the air full of Shturmovik - gulp!! - it's gonna be a long day...

evan · #18 April 19th, 2007, 06:36 AM

Didn't mean to ***** and put people offside; and if I have I apologise.

Likewise I understand the infernal lack of visibility from afv's and don't have a problem with that but rather the situation were a MG or gun crew is stationary for seven or eight turns looking across a valley and still takes three or four turns to work out which hex a enemy unit has opened up from.

Also I would again like to thank the people that reply to my posts; always helpful; and would also like to thank the people that have developed this game to the point where it is both frustrating and addictive.

DRG · #19 April 19th, 2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

dlazov said:
I'll, try my best.....

Actually it was the bit about not seeing the infantry until they were 15 feet away and how "Most infantry (at least the smart ones) don't want you to see them, until it's too late." that I found the most informative

However, "adjust the preferences if you have a problem" works for me too

Normally "discussions" about game systems tend to involve people who have never been in a tank, in combat.

What was the "terrain" like in the incident you described ? Desert scrub ?

Don

DRG · #20 April 19th, 2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

MajorDisaster said:<snip>The fact that you can tune it to suit is wonderful, (especially for this game genre), but I guess I have felt that's kind of "cheating" when I play any sort of game? <snip>

It is impossible to build a game of this complexity that could suit all players all the time. The Newbie playing for the first time is not anywhere near the level as someone playing for years. If we only built it for one end of the spectrum we lose the other end because it's too hard for one guy and too easy for the other THATS why those preferences are in the game and why the game is set up for somewhere in the middle. If you buy a motorcycle and ride it for the first time do you think you'd be capable of racing the Isle of Man ? If the game is too easy or too hard THATS what the preferences are for it's not "cheating" if the designers encourage people to use the feature.

Don