Artillery smoke availability

[DRG]

"may be removed" is the important bit there.

The issue is still under review. All your links except tarrif.net are useless for information and I already said there is NO way to give specific guns smoke or no smoke. The ONLY way to do it in the game without tearing things apart and rebuilding ( which isn't going to happen ) is by WH size which means any gun/mortar/rocket that falls within the range we would specify would have smoke and if outside the range would not have smoke so there will ALWAYS be some gun that may stray to one side or the other of that line that either gets smoke when it shouldn't or doesn't when it should so if smoke shells exist for 75mm guns ( as they most certainly do ) then ALL 75mm guns will have smoke even if one particular model didn't actually have them issued to it.

As for smoke for rockets or not according to that ONE (1) source you list it would appear only the Nebelwerfer 41 has smoke but ONE source is not proof. tarrif.net doesn't even list one of the most common calibre guns in the Russian army in WW2 ( 122mm )so it's hardly a definitive source of information.

There *MAY* be a change in the next release and maybe not. It depends on what kind of input I get from others on this issue.

Don

[chuckfourth]

Very excellent,
Just curious if it was still on the back burner or not
Thanks for your reply and eforts.
Best Chuck.

[chuckfourth]

the russian site for 122 is now at
http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...=144&Itemid=64
and more generally.
http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...d=54&Itemid=64
Best Chuck.

[DRG]

And here's the link to the factory that made the shells in WW2

http://rea2006.rus-catalog.ru/catalo...000126_dwn.htm

Here the translation of that that is written on this page regarding WW2:

" In the 30's of past century and during World War II 1941-1945 the plant it let out the housings of 122- millimeter explosive, HE fragmentation, smoke, igniting and special projectiles."

This is also apparently mentioned in Isby's weapons & tactics of the USSR. 122mm Russian Arty could fire smoke despite what one website reports

Don

[Nox]

The "Tarrif" site only lists smoke ammo stats if the author of that site has them available. So it doesn't meant that they did not have smoke ammo.

I really dont think that limiting smoke ammo to sertain smaller calibres of guns is a good idea. You would need to research every nation and what kind of ammo did they use because there really is nothing to say a 150mm gun could not have smoke ammo. Also what about scenarios or campaigns and how they might be affected by a change like this? IIRC all versions of Steel Panthers have had some smoke ammo for the larger guns too.

[DRG]

The really large calibre arty didn't use have smoke shells but in the game the "kludge" for smoke is that every gun gets a little bit and in the end this all evens out and nobody has ever complained ( until Chucky came along with his crusade )and we have never considered it an issue worth really worrying about. The code was supposed to filter smoke out of the large calibre guns but this is such and important issue ( not ! ) that we ,and everyone else who has tested the game , didn't notice that the 8 inch guns etc were throwing smoke.

Also, as I have explained before there is NO way give or take smoke away from individual guns. In the game there has to be a line drawn at a specific War head size and that is generally "around" 150mm but as you pointed out there is little to say if a specific 150 mm gun did or did not have smoke because in most cases ( and websites ) dealing with arty, smoke is a non issue but it's more than a bit presumptuous for anyone to assume that if one website doesn't list smoke for a gun then they didn't use it.

I have not committed myself to this change and if I do it will, by the very nature of the structure of the game, going to have to be a compromise. I have seen some info on US 155 guns having smoke ( WP. it does the same job ) AND I have Ian Hoggs book on German artillery and he lists a " bursting smoke shell filled with oleum/pumice" for the 15cm FH18 and FH40 so **IF** this does get changed it will likely be for warheads 9 and above and below WH 3 which means ALL 150mm arty in the game would still get smoke as they are WH 8 BUT as I said, no decision has been made. Removing smoke from the big guns really doesn't make much of an impact on the game and neither does leaving it but we are at the stage of development where "nit picking" issues like this has become almost the norm.

Don

[junk2drive]

I play a few different games that have arty with HE and smoke. When I use big guns, I use HE. Only in despiration would I use smoke with big guns. By then it is usually hopeless anyway.
I voted to leave things as they are.

[chuckfourth]

Hi just some extra comments.
White phosperous is much closer to napalm as it burns everyone in a very large area. As smoke it not particularily good as it is very hot and soon rises up off the ground. Im not concerned which way you model this as the petrol bombs leave a permanent smoke screen anyway.
I noticed that rocket artillery does have its own class so I guess that it would be easy to remove all rocket smoke. Apparently this is a silly suggestion. but Personally I think the lesser of two evils is to lose one weapons smoke so all the others can be modeled correctly rather than get all the rockets wrong so one in particular is right.
Best regards Chuck.

[chuckfourth]

Hi
I think some units or possibly a class got missed in the smoke removals. Unit Class 43, it appears in the British and USA OOBs and no doubt elsewhere and doesnt seem to have has its smoke removed. Just in passing, the vessel in the picture looks a little small to be carrying 160 4.5 inch rockets.
Best Regards Chuck.