Fighting Commanders and Equipment. - Page 2

Edi · #11 September 19th, 2005, 02:34 PM

The Van and Tuatha commanders can get pretty impressive with the right equipment, and any mounted commmander can make for a decent thug as long as you're fighting regular units. Slapping both fear and awe on them (horror helmet and gold shield) really ruins the average grunt's day, especially if the unit also has luck.

Most infantry commanders however are not good for combat, they die too easily. I like putting lightning bow, black bow or longbow of accuracy on them.

Edi

shovah · #12 September 19th, 2005, 02:37 PM

or bow of war

sushiboat · #13 September 19th, 2005, 02:53 PM

You get what you pay for. Basic commanders are cheap and frail, so they aren't good candidates for expensive equipment or hand-to-hand combat.

A non-mage commander can be good for holding a spell-casting item. He can't cast any other spells, so if you set him to Cast Spells, you can be 100% sure of what he will cast. Item spells cause only 5 fatigue, so he will be fully active for the first 20 turns.

I am not sure I understand the problem. Any particular unit can't do everything well. There are commanders who can fight well (e.g., Bane Lord, summoned uniques). Basic commanders can't. So it goes.

spirokeat · #14 September 19th, 2005, 03:23 PM

Its not that there is a problem, thats not what I mean. But usually by the time you can summon a suitable commander to fight (and I dont mean a full blown SC). Its that you have usually bypassed the need to give them things like the trinkets.

Its like there is a whole band of basic equipment that is non-functional due to commander frailty and unit cohesion. And more to the point I'm trying to discover if its something I'm simply missing and they can be used.

In regard to the lycan amulet. Well it adds some good strength too as well as jacking the werewolf (call of wild) regen to 4 per turn not two.

I usually just give basic commanders items like others have said they do, bows or spell casting items.

Spirokeat

quantum_mechani · #15 September 19th, 2005, 04:20 PM

Quote:

spirokeat said:

Its like there is a whole band of basic equipment that is non-functional due to commander frailty and unit cohesion. And more to the point I'm trying to discover if its something I'm simply missing and they can be used.

In regard to the lycan amulet. Well it adds some good strength too as well as jacking the werewolf (call of wild) regen to 4 per turn not two.

That sort of basic equipment is primarily used by expander pretenders. Items like the thorn staff are greatly useful for pretenders that start with some junk weapon or even 'fist'.

I'm not saying the lychantropos' amulet is 100% useless, but items like barkskin amulets or girdles of strength seem a better deals in this situation.

shovah · #16 September 19th, 2005, 04:25 PM

if you want to make a survivable commander give him 2 weapons with high defence and some tough armour and then if you can some sort of spell casting/regenerating/fatigue curing item ( use that last one with heavy armour such as black plate of ulm ) and give him some heavily armoured bodyguards with decent morale

PDF · #17 September 19th, 2005, 06:09 PM

As a rule of thumb, don't spend precious gems to equip non-mages commanders with less than say 30hp.
As exceptions you can make some "assassins" out of anything with a good prec and Eth Crossbow or Black Bow, or makes some supporters with Bow of Wars or Skeleton amulets, but limit investments in these to 1 item (2 at most with Eye of Precision).

spirokeat · #18 September 19th, 2005, 06:32 PM

I had not considered expander pretenders, I exclusively play immobile ones. Tis a point well made.

I agree with PDF too.

My point is not about 'how' to make a combatant or what armour or weapons one would need, but an observation on a particular band of commanders and a particular band of items. As I play a particular brand of nation and pretender.

I suspect thats where I am missing the point. As a Mictlan player I would never craft a hunters knife as I can chuck out hellswords for fun. And as I play immobile pretenders I rely on standared commanders to expand initially so I wouldnt kit out my god with lowbie items to assist.

Gotta love this game for the multitude of play styles and options.

Spirokeat

Alneyan · #19 September 19th, 2005, 06:38 PM

Well, non-mage mundane commanders make very good gem haulers, especially if they are sneaky. Sure, they may not be actually fighting, but your mages will be mighty glad of getting new, shiny gems after their first battle.

sushiboat · #20 September 20th, 2005, 02:03 AM

Quote:

spirokeat said:
Its not that there is a problem, thats not what I mean. But usually by the time you can summon a suitable commander to fight (and I dont mean a full blown SC). Its that you have usually bypassed the need to give them things like the trinkets.

Its like there is a whole band of basic equipment that is non-functional due to commander frailty and unit cohesion. And more to the point I'm trying to discover if its something I'm simply missing and they can be used.

In the early game, gems are few and far between. Spending gems and a mage turn on something that will soon be obsolete seems a waste to me. As for items that don't seem to be worth forging, I think that's true even at higher levels. Sometimes I can't imagine an item making much of a difference. Sometimes an item is OK, but another available item is better for the same purpose or is a better value for the cost.

You probably know that commanders can hold for up to five turns before attacking. You can play around with various delays and unit placements so that everyone starts fighting at roughly the same time. Those formations will have to change with the speed of the anticipated opponents.