Dominions 2 Demo - Manual petition to Illwinter

[Alneyan]

Therlun said:if it glances at PBEM-MP games-> great! but how should i know that before buying, if it is a real pain to arrange/start a MP session? (if it is possible with the demo at all)

if it has a very complex battle system with a distinctive balancing offering endless possibilities for army composition -> fantastic! but how shall i see that if in the most cases i dont even know if an attack/spell did any damage/use at all?

Hello, and welcome! The first point should be the easier to check: a look at the multiplayer discussions forums will show the current activity in the field of multiplayer games, and it *should* be possible to host a game with the demo (though that would require all players to use the demo to the best of my knowledge).

The second point is another matter: Dominions does provide a lot of information, but most of it is not made available directly. More specifically, you can replay your battles, and see what went correctly (and what didn't), but you will not get direct output saying that "the Fire Darts spell dealt major damage to the enemy army".

This can make for some interesting experimentation, but you should be able to find specific information you need on these boards, if you would rather not go into the lab yourself for some experiments.

Liga how did you manage to teach 14 people how 2 play dom2. Every time I try I fail miserably and end making the person hate the game.

[sushiboat]

As a newbie who played the demo in late December 2004 and bought the game shortly thereafter, the lack of a manual didn't bother me. The in-game information -- mouseovers and right-click -- told me much of what I wanted to know. I will say, however, that spell and item descriptions are often so vague as to be useless. Even now, before I try a new spell or item that requires a substantial investment, I do a search on this forum to see what it really does and whether people feel it is worth the cost. Of course, unless the manual's descriptions are expanded quite a bit -- which seems impractical -- I don't see a way around the problem. As the game reviews say, the game has a steep learning curve. That comes with its complexity and richness.

Therlun's comments just go to show that this game (or anything) isn't for everyone. Some people won't like it no matter how detailed the information is. There are some aspects that I don't like, but I see them as minor flaws in a very enjoyable game. Other won't get past the flaws.

[PvK]

There are some good AAR's and tutorials written by players in various places on the web. Making those more visible would help players who have a hard time understanding what's going on, what to do, and what's fun about the game.

If that and the demo don't work, it's probably just not a style of game they'll like.

I was completely hooked by the Dominions I demo - my main anticipation buying the full game was wanting to get Black Plate infantry and Guardians for my Ulm game!

PvK

[Thilock_Dominus]

I know there is pinned post called links with rich information, but what about making a pinned post called 'HOWTO: Easy steps for newbies' or 'HOWTO: The Guide for newbies'. In this post it could contains how to do the diffrent things, but in a very simple and easy explained way and short.
It could be something like 'HOWTO: make your mage only cast spells in combat', then people can click that link and a short briefly description tells them to click on the 'Army Setup' button and click where it says 'Click here to set battle orders'.
That could safe many troubles

[johan osterman]

liga said:
I have tryed and asked the devs if I could include the original manual in the addenda to provide an electronic full (or at lesat with the top of knowledge) version that could be give to people an idea of the deep of the game ... but i got not a real answer .. i think that they prefer to keep the original manual just only in the official game.

...

Actually this has little to do with illwinter and more to do with shrapnel. Shrapnel considers the full manual a selling point of the game, a reason not to go with a pirated version, which is why the manual is not available as a pdf. Whether or not this has had an adverse or positive effect on the sales is all but impossible to know, but according to shrapnel their experience has been that a printed manual, and lack of electronic one, is a good selling point. Dom 1 used a pdf manual, which was a little more comprehensive than the dom2 manual, of course that lead to some criticism as well.

[liga]

johan osterman said:
Actually this has little to do with illwinter and more to do with shrapnel. Shrapnel considers the full manual a selling point of the game, a reason not to go with a pirated version, which is why the manual is not available as a pdf. Whether or not this has had an adverse or positive effect on the sales is all but impossible to know, but according to shrapnel their experience has been that a printed manual, and lack of electronic one, is a good selling point. Dom 1 used a pdf manual, which was a little more comprehensive than the dom2 manual, of course that lead to some criticism as well.

Was not my intention go into the commercial strategy of both Illwinter abnd Shrapnelgames ... anyway I think that without an "official" authorization both form IW and SG I would not
start any work with part of the official manual in it!

... and about how I have teached 14 people the game ... after a brief introduction to the game I have made them play a Lan game with me as a 'Living manual' ...

good play to all!
Liga

[Ironhawk]

I also found the demo something that was pretty lacking. The first time I played it I was totally unimpressed. None of the games interesting features were really brought out to me. It was only later when I friend brought me back to it and pointed out a few things that gameplay became very interesting. In turn I tried to also interest some of my friends but they all turned away because of the demo :/

As for the manual, liga, I found the answer to this when I posted a thread some time ago about why dom2 was only available on a physical CD and had to be mailed, as opposed to downloaded. A Shrapnel Games person posted and said that they felt it was thier most effective way to combat piracy. Whether this is true or not - given that other small download-only houses (like galciv, etc) seem to be doing ok - I dont know.

I will say this tho. By the time the actual physical manual actually arrived at my place I didnt even need it anymore. Only look at it one or two times a month.

liga said:
I have tryed and asked the devs if I could include the original manual in the addenda to provide an electronic full (or at lesat with the top of knowledge) version that could be give to people an idea of the deep of the game ... but i got not a real answer .. i think that they prefer to keep the original manual just only in the official game.

I'm be able to get new adept (at the moment we are in 14 in my group playing dom2) making lan party and introducing the game to the new player in hot seat sessions.

Anyway as soon as we got permission form the devs I will be really happy to help in preparing a manual for beginner and one for advanced players!

good luck and good play
Liga

[Endoperez]

Ironhawk said:
I also found the demo something that was pretty lacking. The first time I played it I was totally unimpressed. None of the games interesting features were really brought out to me. It was only later when I friend brought me back to it and pointed out a few things that gameplay became very interesting. In turn I tried to also interest some of my friends but they all turned away because of the demo :/

As for the manual, liga, I found the answer to this when I posted a thread some time ago about why dom2 was only available on a physical CD and had to be mailed, as opposed to downloaded. A Shrapnel Games person posted and said that they felt it was thier most effective way to combat piracy. Whether this is true or not - given that other small download-only houses (like galciv, etc) seem to be doing ok - I dont know.

I will say this tho. By the time the actual physical manual actually arrived at my place I didnt even need it anymore. Only look at it one or two times a month.

What were those interesting features? SCs? Better items? High-level summons? Clamming?

I am slowly putting together a tutorial scenario, and it would help if I knew what I should introduce in it.