Engines per move follies...

[Sinapus]

I guess I'll try altering the files on the race I tend to use and test it out, using ctrl-money to speed through research here and there. Maybe I didn't reload the game or something like that.

I don't particularly mind altering AI files, since I've been doing that to the research files for awhile and I added a change to the facility construction files. (They didn't have the entry to build atmosphere converters and such)

Just hoping to keep from breaking things too much.

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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[Tenryu]

I just checked my ongoing game, 1.27, yup no fighters for the bad guys. You were right.

I changed the min fighter speed to 1 in the Abbidon Designcreation file and then started them as a computer player in a new high tech game. They had a large fighter design this time.

I trashed my 1.19 files a week ago so I will have to re-edit everything again.{groan} I think I will set all the ship speeds to Min 1 and Max 12 this time and the fighter to 1 and 20.

Oh yeah, one other thing I noticed, you need to set the min tonnage on mines to 5 as the small mines are that size.

I believe this should be OK or at least get the fighters for the AI.

If you have any suggestions, let me know.
I am always a bit shy about changing the AI scripts.

Sorry for wasting any of your time.

[This message has been edited by Tenryu (edited 03 March 2001).]

[Sinapus]

It seems like the upper limit is six drives as well, no matter what you set the desired speed to. I changed the max engines for fighters to something higher than four and it started designing ships after that point.

I guess I'll have to modify things a bit further.

You didn't waste my time. I just need to modify the files a bit and maybe email MM and ask them what's up with this or something.

I hadn't thought of adding supplies to the hull as a method of getting more supplies for bigger ships.

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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[Tenryu]

Ok Sinapus, I spent some time again reviewing and testing some junk.

Here's what I think might work for the fighters. I found that in some cases setting the minimum engines to 1 for them made them make a 1 engine fighter. That's pretty lame, so I have changed the fighter files as per the attached fighterhulls.txt.

It makes all fighters have 2 engines max. I think we need to set the fighter hull in design creation to min 2 and max 2. Yes, no typo, 2 and 2, otherwise I'm afraid it will do some damn thing next like design a fighter with only engines!

Next , groan, all the designcreation files need to be edited. Maybe I'll do it if I'm crazy enough this weekend. Hmmm, should I get drunk before or after I do it?

I know I'll start before and finish after!


BTW, i have attached a recent colonizer component set that the AI uses OK I think, we don't need the 3rd class Gas and Ice ones, but I think the AI does, and it makes it real easy for old men like me to remember what colony component to put on what colony ship to send where ... always any highest number.

Thanks for noting the fighter thing. I would have wasted days playing that damn game before I noticed something was wrong.

[Sinapus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tenryu:
Ok Sinapus, I spent some time again reviewing and testing some junk.

Here's what I think might work for the fighters. I found that in some cases setting the minimum engines to 1 for them made them make a 1 engine fighter. That's pretty lame, so I have changed the fighter files as per the attached fighterhulls.txt.

It makes all fighters have 2 engines max. I think we need to set the fighter hull in design creation to min 2 and max 2. Yes, no typo, 2 and 2, otherwise I'm afraid it will do some damn thing next like design a fighter with only engines!

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Actually, when I set the min speed to 1 in designcreation.txt for fighters, it wouldn't build a fighter until max engines in the vehiclesize.txt file was at least 4. Try it out.

I did email MM to see if they can confirm whether or not those values are hard-coded.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried testing out an Allegiance Subverter on a ship that has both a master computer -and- a bridge, crew quarters, life support?


Oh, I forgot to mention another thing: the base bridges you made in that component file, the ones w/multiplex tracking added in? The AI adds more than one of them to defense bases. I think because it only sees the multiplex tracking in the bridge and adds it in. Sorry to keep bringing you this bad news.

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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[Tenryu]

Hmm, I'm getting them to design fighters, before with one engine and now with 2.

Is it designing and just not building? Or, is it not even designing for you? It's designing for me. Haven't played it to know if it is building any, maybe tommorrow.

Look at the fighter hulls I have posted. They all have 2 to 4 extra combat movement. Maybe that is what the darn thing wants. I won't know until tomorrow

The base bridge is weird! I was afraid when i designed it that it would waste space with a Multiplex component that it doesn't need. I think those effects are supposed to be limited to only one effect per ship, the highest.

Why that would make the AI add multiple bridges in spite of the one bridge limit sounds like a bug to me.

Regarding the allience subverter, no, anything interesting there?

BTW, i take it back on the 2/2 for the engines probably 2/20 is ok. Was thinking the second was max engines, duh, it's speed.

And this is not bad news. It helps make the game better as we figure out what is happening and what is not.

Oh, I also missed setting one of the min engines on one of the hulls to 2, it is at 3, think it was fleet fighter II or III.

[Tenryu]

Ok, it's Saturday! I can mess with SE4 ALL day!

Sinapus, I started a new high tech game, maxing everything, except 3 planets. I used 2 races, a 'new' player(mine), and Mephs Earth Alliance from 1.60 (I did not install that, just added the dsgname file, empire, and race stuff).

In the EA AI files, I changed only the fighter Min speed from 6 to 2 and Desired speed from 6 to 16 in the EA DesignCreation.txt file. I disabled all the create random neutral and random computer races options. I started the game.

I did nada, turn one. I checked the EA after the first turn. They had no fighters but were building some CLs and a CVL.

I reset them to computer control and clicked through 5 turns. I checked them again. They had a a carrier loaded up with 32 heavy fighter 2s and a bunch more fighters on the main planet.

So the AI is building the little buggers.

Last night, I ran the Abbidon for about 30 turns and they never built any, however they did design a heavy fighter and (oddly) redesign it, {the same???!!!}, and set the old one to obsolete, hmmm.

So maybe the problem is in the AI files.
The Abbidon just seemed to like super monitor hulls, not unexpected, but, at least while I was messing with them never did build a fighter. hmmm.

The base bridge thing I have never seen. I am going to try and figure that one out next today.

I am not so wedded to the multi-targeting on/in them anyway, if it is causing problems such as you note I'll probably just remove that ability.

It does sound like you may have found a bug. I doubt that any ability should or was intended to over-ride the 'one only' limit, at least for bridges.

Let me know if you find any other interesting
behavior. Thanks again.

[Sinapus]

Odd. What Version of SE4 are you using? I was using the 1.27b patch...

Oh, in vehiclesize.txt, under the extra movement generation. I think value 1 is the extra movement amount and value 2 is supposed to be 1, judging from looking at the stats for Solar Sails. (Which don't give movement bonuses based on the stars anyway...)

I was getting some lockups after starting up a game with these mods. I'll change the value 2 amt to 1 and see if it still shows up.


[This message has been edited by Sinapus (edited 04 March 2001).]

[Sinapus]

Hm. Looks like the EA is designing overly fast colony ships. Or more engines than is legal. Looks like it's because of the "standard movement" part in the misc components. Mephisto probably didn't detect it because the max amount it can load into a hull is five, which is the colony ship's max in the regular game. :/


The population transport is putting in a ship bridge, probably because of the 500 supply it provides. I tried increasing the supply storage to 600, but it wouldn't use it. It might be because it has about 10kt left and bridges have 10kt. I'm removing the supplies from the bridge units.

Still doing it. Argh. It's because of the extra movement generation. *sigh*

Maybe the bridge movement should be changed to combat movement or something or removed?

*sigh* I'm also getting freezes in the game when I colonize a planet for some reason. Or after the 2nd turn. I have no reason why, but it seems to go away when I remove the mods for this. :/

But you're right, the AI *is* designing things. It's just the race I was using that wasn't doing that for some reason.



[This message has been edited by Sinapus (edited 04 March 2001).]

[Tenryu]

[quote]Originally posted by Sinapus:
Odd. What Version of SE4 are you using? I was using the 1.27b patch...[quote]

??? Version 1.27b here, too.

[quote]Oh, in vehiclesize.txt, under the extra movement generation. I think value 1 is the extra movement amount and value 2 is supposed to be 1, judging from looking at the stats for Solar Sails. (Which don't give movement bonuses based on the stars anyway...)[quote]

Be careful when playing with the second value on the extra movement. I had a bear of a time getting each of the components with it working. It needs to be a unique identifier to add with the other extra movements on other components or hulls. It seems to be either something to do with family of components or type, like hulls. I think you have to assign a unique ID number for each speed and for each component family and the hulls. I think that is what I did to get them adding together.

[quote]I was getting some lockups after starting up a game with these mods. I'll change the value 2 amt to 1 and see if it still shows up.[quote]

Hmmm. :/