FAERUN: Map Update

[Boron]

Originally posted by Kaljamaha:
Permissions are now fixed.


K.

yeah coool

[Arryn]

These two maps are now available for download from my site.

[tinkthank]

Wow, great, thanks so much Edi, I cant wait to try them out (probably next week, however, since RL will prevent me from doing so beforehand).
How does one say "Thanks tons!" in Finnish?
And thanks much too to Gandalf and Arryn for providing access!

[NTJedi]

EDI...

any new 400+ maps under construction ??

[Cainehill]

Yes, thank you! The color tweak makes the map usable with the neighbors filter, and the new black points make it _so_ much easier to run seagoing (Vanheim, etc) and flying scouts / armies. Gracias!

[PvK]

These sound very nice, Edi! Now I just need to make some time to try them out...

PvK

[Edi]

Thanks all, I'm glad you like.

Cainehill, it was your excellent criticisms that prompted those two particular changes, so you have yourself to thank as much as me for them.

NTJedi, undortunately, no new huge maps under way. The Dragonlance map has 186 provinces, iirc, but that's all at the moment. It was impossible to cram more provinces on it without making a hash of the map, much to my disappointment.

But if somebody provides me with good-looking maps of known fantasy worlds, I'll be happy to make more. I've not enough artistic talent or patience to actually draw my own maps, so I'm limited to what I can make off of pre-existing graphics. If anybody wants to provide me with a scan of a Greyhawk map, I'll be happy to oblige...

Edi

[tinkthank]

Hi Edi,

thanks so very much for your time and effort, this all looks great.
Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to do any extensive testing (our wedding anniversary and other RL stuff), but these are just some minor questions I have so far related to the Faerun SMALL map, which I like much. I just basically did a fly-by view of your work. I am going to "save" really testing it for a few games when I have a chance.
I'd like to say that it looks wonderful and I think it is as nearly error-free as any map I have seen released. Still..... do you mind me making these tiny points?
(NOTE: all that follows pertains to Faerun-Small ALONE)

- provs 41 and 68 -- are you sure these are supposed to be neighbors?

- 241 and 251 arent neighbors, why? (since 228 and 251 are...)

- Ctis starting location has only 2 land neighbors (both of which are large farm lands, which for quickstart also makes for an odd imbalance)

- Machaka still seems to have a really huge starting point advantage (everything to the west is free....) -- perhaps make them start more to the west, or make that entire area contain fewer provinces?)

- Starbursts are VERYhelpful, although often confusable with towns (little black circles), and not always readily visible -- have you thought about perhaps making the starbursts yellow, or have a pixel of red or yellow or whatever in the middle or something, could be even more helpful?

- Quickstart: some provs are really really nice starting ones with lots of income, others not (compare: Ulm to Marignon)

Thanks tons!!!

[Edi]

Hi Edi,

thanks so very much for your time and effort, this all looks great.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that!

Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to do any extensive testing (our wedding anniversary and other RL stuff), but these are just some minor questions I have so far related to the Faerun SMALL map, which I like much. I just basically did a fly-by view of your work. I am going to "save" really testing it for a few games when I have a chance.

Any and all feedback is welcome, whether fly-by view or a more thorough review. I look forward to the more detailed feedback.

I'd like to say that it looks wonderful and I think it is as nearly error-free as any map I have seen released. Still..... do you mind me making these tiny points?
(NOTE: all that follows pertains to Faerun-Small ALONE)

I most certainly do NOT mind, the most important thing for mapmakers is to get feedback on their work so they can improve in their craft. Just considering what I learned in the process of making the first Version of Faerun and the feedback from that, the improvement in my mapmaking skill was staggering. And no matter how good a mapmaker, there will always be mistakes and the maker will have the hardest time of all in seeing them if they are minor. That's also part of the improvement process for every map, players finding out the small glitches.

- provs 41 and 68 -- are you sure these are supposed to be neighbors?

Thank you for catching this one. No, they should not be neighbors. 41 and 67 should be, though. This mistake is the result of me having to add provinces after making a map file (several times), and then manually editing the province numbers and neighbor info to accommodate the changes (it's the biggest goddamn pain in the *** inmapmaking short of having to redo a whole map file for a map this size) and review in the map editor every once in a while, and I made a mistake there which I missed.

- 241 and 251 arent neighbors, why? (since 228 and 251 are...)

Take a closer look at the map graphics. The mountains between Desertsmouth and the Empire of Shadows (the Scimitar Spires) block access from Desertsmouth, but between the Empire of Shadows and Southern Anauroch the mountain range is not contiguous but broken by a range of hills (in other words, there's a pass there). So no, they are not supposed to be neighbors. If a mountain range is not a province, then it is a barrier (e.g. the Desertsmouth Mountains, the Earthspur and Earthfast Mountains) that prevents movement and you have to go around unless there is a clear pass in between.

- Ctis starting location has only 2 land neighbors (both of which are large farm lands, which for quickstart also makes for an odd imbalance)

Whoops, another mistake. C'tis should be starting in Southern Mulhorand on account of the number of neighbors issue, something I think I must have forgotten in that phase of map editing. Will be fixed tomorrow.

- Machaka still seems to have a really huge starting point advantage (everything to the west is free....) -- perhaps make them start more to the west, or make that entire area contain fewer provinces?)

Machaka's eastern expansion options are very limited, because they will run into Pythium almost immediately, or into Halruaa which is very heavily defended. Their capital is near the border, thus easily threatened, and if Marignon is played as CotS or Vanheim goes for the Southern expansion route, they will have no shortage of hostile neighbors. In SP, the problem is more pronounced than in MP, but that's tough bananas, the map can't be completely balanced or it will lose the thematic feel.

- Starbursts are VERYhelpful, although often confusable with towns (little black circles), and not always readily visible -- have you thought about perhaps making the starbursts yellow, or have a pixel of red or yellow or whatever in the middle or something, could be even more helpful?

Can't do. First off, the amount of work in editing the image would be a pain in the arse. Second, black is the best overall color for the markers because it is visible against all backgrounds, unlike yellow. They are supposed to be unobtrusive yet easily found, which they are now. Red would be too obtrusive. If you click in the vicinity of one, it will snap there, so no problem in that regard. Third, mixed color markers would be less visible and as the markers look like this--
Code:

---

...B...

..BBB..

.BBXBB.

..BBB..

...B...

---

--any mixing of colors would make them almost invisible, or at best harder to spot.

Sorry, but they stay that way.

- Quickstart: some provs are really really nice starting ones with lots of income, others not (compare: Ulm to Marignon)

In this case, [censored] happens. The Qstart locations are supposed to be more or less contiguous and most logical according to the geographical and geopolitical borders and divisions, and if some nations get luckier than others in this regard, then that's how the dice roll. C'tis being the exception because of my earlier mistake, which I will fix tomorrow.

Thanks tons!!!

You're welcome, I need more feedback like this.

All right people, tinkthank's just set you an example on what kind of feedback to give, now get cracking.

I'll attach the fixed map files into my next post here.

Edi

[Edi]

Following tinkthank's feedback, the map files for Faerun_small have been updated to correct the neighbor problem with province 41 (now neighbors 67 instead of 68) and C'tis start province (107 instead of 125).

Edi