Mercenary Idea

[PvK]

If we accept the suggestion that the AI won't ever hire other nations' mercenaries, it seems like this would just give Ermor something else to trade other humans for gold, besides gems, items, info, and diplomatic deals. If the other players don't want to buy Ermorian mercenaries, they wouldn't have to. Meanwhile, they would offer unique value to other players (e.g. Nergash can currently sweep indie aquatics if given water-breathing).

Some additional fee probably does make sense though.

So far I don't see any real or new problems with Boobytrap Brigades.

How about the "free teleportation" issue? It would allow an alliance to rapidly deploy forces faster than they otherwise could, because of the usual need to march to a location. Cost to the provider could be based on distance travelled... or there could be a delay for them actually arrive based on the actual travel time it would have required, during which maintenance is still paid. Hmm.

PvK

[Jack Simth]

It's not free teleportation - it's fee teleportation (or at least, it is with my suggestion). Some fee per unit (counting the commander as a unit) - perhaps 1/2 gold per size per unit - would deal with it - that brigade of 50 machaka spiders, led by a spider (size 6, weren't they?) is going to cost (51 * 6 * 1/2) = 153 gold (plus other expenses - the announcement fee and maintenence times some factor) - if you assume there is some amount of a magic economy hiding in the game (somebody is training those mages most nations hire, after all), it isn't unreasonable to assume that there is a teleportation section of the mercenaries' guild that is willing to teleport your units around for a fee when you hire them out as mercs - it would explain the default merc's ability to do so, and be somewhat thematic.

For living nations, a movement fee of 1/2 per size (similar to supply) is likely to be negligable compared to the maintenence over the designated time frame - 50 cost-10 archers cost 50 gold to move, but (10 * 1/15 * 7 * 50) = 233.33333333333 gold to maintain for 7 turns (and 500 to replace). For SG or AE Ermor, with no maintenence costs but little in the way of revenue, that same 50 gold transportation is expensive, even without the maintenence - and is moving nothing but cheap cannon fodder. Yeah, it could make alliances much stronger - but it isn't free teleportation - just gem free teleportation.

[Norfleet]

The more amusing thing with booby-trapped brigades is doing it in REVERSE:

Instead of trying to get your booby-trapped brigade hired, hire somebody else's....and then let it take home a booby-trapped bonus prize.

[Cohen]

I believe this could mess up National balance a lot.

But if Diplomacy is enhanced, it should be a good idea to be able to dispatch troops (moving in map however) in the ally territory without occupying them, and fighting alongside you ally armies, but they're always in your command.

[PvK]

Nice.

[UberPenguin]

Heh, perhaps it would be smart to disable the mercenarie's ability to gain items etc while hes working. That would solve alot of the booby problems, though I would love to use them before they get patched over. Were it to actually be impletemented.

[Jack Simth]

Good point, but rather than disabling mercs aquiring items, just tell the player renting them out who rented them - it could go something like:

Turn X: you (Pangea) set commander Jimbob's orders to "Turn Merc", don't accept from Ermor or Machaka (at war with them); for an immediate cost of 300 gold.

Turn X+1:you get a message: "Jimbob has contacted the mercenaries guild, and his availablility has been posted."

Turn X+2: you get a message: "Jimbob was hired by Abyssa for 450 gold" at which point you get the money (for a 150 net profit, so far - combat losses not yet tallied).

Turn X+6: Jimbob returns and you get a message "Jimbob has returned to the capitol after fighting for Abyssa"
You check Jimbob - he now has a bane venom charm, and is consequently diseased (and diseasing your capital!) (you maybe got a virulent disease message too).
Turn X+7: Everbody (except Abyssa (did the trapping), Machaka, Ermor (at war with them - let them find out about Abyssa's betrayl the hard way), and Pangea(you)) gets a message from you: "Abyssa just stuck my merc Jimbob with a bane venom charm while he was renting him!"
Turn X+12: Abyssa realizes that nobody except Machaka and Ermor has been offering him mercs for the past several turns....

Of course - heaven forbid - if this kind of thing happened reasonably often, someone might lie to gain advantage over another player who didn't do any such thing.

Likewise, only commanders from living nations can be so boobytrapped.

With such a measure, it would be a trick you could get away with a few times before nobody would offer you mercs anymore. After which you would be at a disadvantage if ever you need a bunch of troops fast, as you can't hire player-mercs. A little display of who is involved to the involved parties (quite reasonable, no?), and you get a "prisoner's dilemma" situation that renders trapping mercs a strategy that isn't long-term beneficial.

[Norfleet]

The other catch: It is in no way PROFITABLE to *EVER* rent out most mercenary units!

If you look over the prices of most mercenary companies, for instance, you'd quickly notice that the rate at which they are priced is actually UNPROFITABLE: Their basic cost is far below what the actual units tend to be worth.

Given that the fate of most mercenary units is to return either with only the commander, or not return at all, it is very difficult to explain how any but a few select nations with free troops can possibly stand to benefit from offering an actual mercenary company up for sale (other than Bubba's Cripple Corps).

If nations that the merc will be offered to can then be restricted, then what we have here is actually a far simpler arrangement: Now that we've divorced ourselves of any real concept of this being a PROFITABLE line of work, the real reason manifests itself: To give specific commanders, usually mages, to the service of a presumably allied nation.

So isn't this what we *REALLY* want, and what this feature would be abused for, if implemented?

[Chazar]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The other catch: It is in no way PROFITABLE to *EVER* rent out most mercenary units!

Depens upon the price, doesnt it?

Originally posted by Norfleet:
...the real reason manifests itself: To give specific commanders, usually mages, to the service of a presumably allied nation.

So isn't this what we *REALLY* want, and what this feature would be abused for, if implemented?

Sure! Either give them away to allies or to the neighbors of your enemies, so that your mages can attack him where your enemy doesnt expect them to do.

I guess this would truly make it into a global war scenario, requirering much more diplomacy to win a game...

[Chazar]

Originally posted by Endoperez:
How diplomatic can rivals be?

Why should you already give up if you see that a competitor is stonger than you are? Use diplomacy and try to make someonelse wage war first and then, when both combatants are weak, wreak havoc upon both...

I guess only Ermor might win entierly on its own. Everybody else has to make some alliances. The questions is when the right time has come to quit this alliances (and I dont necessarily mean by foul treason).