SCs other than the vq - Page 2

archaeolept · #11 May 4th, 2004, 06:05 PM

yah, none of these other immortals stack up to the VQ, who is so extremely exploitable its a joke,and, along w/ the combo strategy of clamming and castling, actually a broken element in the game.

There are lots of fun SCs, but they're normal run of the mill. The GK is perhaps a bit strong due to it's cheap paths, and the Allfather is a monster.

Norfleet · #12 May 4th, 2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:
He's great to soften the opposition a bit (or a lot) though. Cloud Trapeze in with the Phoenix, do as much havoc as you can, move an army in the same turn to collect the spoils while the Phoenix is back home, rinse & repeat.

You can cloud trapeze into the target province on the same turn you have an army scheduled to move in: Cast something fun, like Wrathful Sky. Observe carnage. Move in to mop-up with regular troops when the Bird Boy bites it.

The Phoenix's advantage is that he can affordably purchase either a Fire or Air-9 bless, both of which are useful blessings as well as potent paths for battle magic (unless you're trying to use fire against Abysia), and his immortality allows him to be used as a kamikaze fighter. The VQ's immortality is a safety net: The Phoenix's immortality is a modus operandi: If you're not dying a lot, you're probably missing the point. Wrathful Sky the crap out of things, then blow up on them with Phoenix Pyre.

johan osterman · #13 May 4th, 2004, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teraswaerto:
The Phoenix has many problems. Poor slots, narrow or expensive paths. Fire Darts does not a SC make. I'm not saying it isn't good, only not anywhere near the VQ.

A Lich costs the same as a VQ, but lacks most of her abilities.

The lack of item slots is not that big a drawback on immortal combat pretenders, if you put a heap of items on an immortal you are 'compromising' its expendability, especially the flying ones which can quickly get back to the front if slain.

johan osterman · #14 May 4th, 2004, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeolept:
yah, none of these other immortals stack up to the VQ, who is so extremely exploitable its a joke,and, along w/ the combo strategy of clamming and castling, actually a broken element in the game.
...

?

Graeme Dice · #15 May 4th, 2004, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by archaeolept:
yah, none of these other immortals stack up to the VQ, who is so extremely exploitable its a joke,and, along w/ the combo strategy of clamming and castling, actually a broken element in the game.
...

?

Select a vampire queen and put hundreds of points into her for use as a defensive force. Say death 3, air 4, fire 2, earth 2/3, water 2. Make sure to give her a full set of equipment so that she can only be killed by other SC's, and is immune to almost all magic. If your opponents start to use spells that can actually affect her such as stellar cascades, solar rays, dust to dust, and wither bones, then put 20-30 cannon fodder troops in front of her. Once your opponent's scripts wear out without targeting her they will switch to paralyze and raise skeletons, neither of which are going to kill her. Wait for your opponent's forces to rout since you won't.

Build a 300 gold castle and temple in every single province. Use the VQ to keep people from being able to invade. Push your dominion with temples while building clams from the income of previous clams. That about sums it up.

Kristoffer O · #16 May 4th, 2004, 08:00 PM

??? For real ???

That's bizzare!

Pirateiam · #17 May 4th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by johan osterman:

quote:
Originally posted by archaeolept:
yah, none of these other immortals stack up to the VQ, who is so extremely exploitable its a joke,and, along w/ the combo strategy of clamming and castling, actually a broken element in the game.
...

?
Select a vampire queen and put hundreds of points into her for use as a defensive force. Say death 3, air 4, fire 2, earth 2/3, water 2. Make sure to give her a full set of equipment so that she can only be killed by other SC's, and is immune to almost all magic. If your opponents start to use spells that can actually affect her such as stellar cascades, solar rays, dust to dust, and wither bones, then put 20-30 cannon fodder troops in front of her. Once your opponent's scripts wear out without targeting her they will switch to paralyze and raise skeletons, neither of which are going to kill her. Wait for your opponent's forces to rout since you won't.

Build a 300 gold castle and temple in every single province. Use the VQ to keep people from being able to invade. Push your dominion with temples while building clams from the income of previous clams. That about sums it up.

He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Norfleet · #18 May 4th, 2004, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pirateiam:
He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Pah. Of course you're losing. You're Ulm playing against SG Ermor, and you apparently aren't interested in diversifying beyond your basic priests and armies. Go figure: Ulm is naturally weak against Ermor, and rather than trying to solve the problem, you'd rather complain about it on the forums. This is not a terribly productive attitude.

His VQ can be in ONE place at a time. If you hit him in more places than he can repel you from with his VQ, he'll lose castle after castle. If you insist on hamhandedly trudging with a single army and waving in front of his face until he kills it, no wonder you lose. Even if he respawns instantly back in his capitol because you were too lazy to roll back his dominion, he has STILL lost the engagement. All YOU have to do is keep your own losses under control and consolidate your own holdings in the same way.

Alternatively, just jack his capitol. Or do I have to do *EVERYTHING* for you?

Pirateiam · #19 May 4th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:
Originally posted by Pirateiam:
He hit the nail on the head! I am in the middle of a game right now with this exact strategy being played by CatQuiet against me. I can stop his armies with my priests but invasion is impossible and in time I will be defeated...no doubt. Would you like the file?

Pah. Of course you're losing. You're Ulm playing against SG Ermor, and you apparently aren't interested in diversifying beyond your basic priests and armies. Go figure: Ulm is naturally weak against Ermor, and rather than trying to solve the problem, you'd rather complain about it on the forums. This is not a terribly productive attitude.

His VQ can be in ONE place at a time. If you hit him in more places than he can repel you from with his VQ, he'll lose castle after castle. If you insist on hamhandedly trudging with a single army and waving in front of his face until he kills it, no wonder you lose. Even if he respawns instantly back in his capitol because you were too lazy to roll back his dominion, he has STILL lost the engagement. All YOU have to do is keep your own losses under control and consolidate your own holdings in the same way.

Alternatively, just jack his capitol. Or do I have to do *EVERYTHING* for you?

Norfleet - I will not defend my strategy. I will be the first to admit I played poorly and was not ready for Ermor SG but since you are not paying attention Abysia is also attacking me so the only thing I can really do is defend to my best abiiliy. If only I could be as great as the great Norfleet ....sigh

Jasper · #20 May 4th, 2004, 08:46 PM

Bold text originally posted by Graeme Dice:
If your opponents start to use spells that can actually affect her such as stellar cascades, solar rays, dust to dust, and wither bones, then put 20-30 cannon fodder troops in front of her. Once your opponent's scripts wear out without targeting her they will switch to paralyze and raise skeletons, neither of which are going to kill her.

I didn't think Stellar Cascades worked on those with 0 enc?

In any event, IMHO you underestimate the power of Dust to Dust and Wither Bones. Wither Bones in particular will make short work of 20-30 undead fodder.

Moreover, you are counting on opponents not casting effective spells after their scripts run out, which IMHO is not reliable.

On top of this it's fairly easy to turn something like a Gifted Crusher or Gargoyle (let alone another Pretender) into something that can slay a VQ.

Build a 300 gold castle and temple in every single province. Use the VQ to keep people from being able to invade. Push your dominion with temples while building clams from the income of previous clams. That about sums it up.

IMHO this is not sufficient to magically keep people from invading.

[ May 04, 2004, 19:46: Message edited by: Jasper ]