Possible way out of the V.Q. Problem

[Cainehill]

Originally posted by Anglachel:
Yep. I repressed a sigh this morning when I read yet another topic about the Vampire Queen and how to "fix" her. Would be nice if you guys that object to her would try and look for "in game" solutions to your problems with the Vampire Queen rather than "out of game"(i.e. NERF HER!) ones. You guys are like some puppy worrying a pooh cuddly. Just take a step back from the whole Vampire Queen thing and try to get some perspective. An "in game" solution would be more creative and fun to me than an "out of game" solution. If there were no "in game" solution to the Vampire Queen THEN she would need to be nerfed. From reading on this forum, this seem to NOT be the case though. Do a search and you will find Vampire Queen counter tactics galore. Anyway, this will be the first and Last time I post on this subject. Pretty tired of the perpetuation of it and don't want to add any more to it than this post.

I'm not one of the "VQ Terror Squad", but actually I'd say that no there is not an ingame solution. Yes you can kill VQs. Problem is that it doesn't gain you anything. She doesn't lose magic paths. She doesn't waste 1-6 turns of the nations time as they try to call her back. It doesn't even get the VQ off your back, because the ***** flies right back! It's like you're swatting cockroaches with a sledgehammer.

In addition, you wind up wasting your time with Vampire Death Squads, which you have to build a lot of, because you can't tell where she'll strike (except you know it'll be friendly dominion for her). These VDS's aren't optimal for regular combat, so they're collecting upkeep twiddling their thumbs hoping they'll stumble across the VQ, who is probably smart enough to avoid those armies.

Frankly, the VQs are exasperating because too many people consider them the ultimate pretender (and they do have a bigger pile of goodies than any other, imo). In one game, 3 of the closest empires to me had VQs, on my borders, at once. It's nuts.

[PDF]

Funny how some people react sometimes : on the ground that a VQ is beatable they dismiss the issue of its/her unbalance.
We aren't talking of strategies against VQ, but about balance and variety in Pretenders.
That a VQ is overpowered is just obvious when you compare her to other or only look at her abilities.
If someone can claim and demonstrate "Well, my Druid ( )is as much powerful/useful than a VQ" (using same point cost)we could progress. Else competitive MP will be plagued by VQs and people of bad faith that don't see any issue with this ...
Let's also propose a temporary fix : ban'em !

[Pirateiam]

I have said this before - If you do not believe the VQ is unbalanced then you either have never met one in a Multi-player game with someone who knows how to use them (Norfleet, Catquiet etc...)or you yourself use them most of the time. One question for those VQ Users - do you not want more of a challange?? I play multiplayer to be challanged how about you?? I think it is time to ask the developers this question. What do they think??

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by PDF:
Let's also propose a temporary fix : ban'em !

Why ban them? Make a mod and use it in MP games.
I'm for increasing their overall and path cost.

[Cohen]

Most of the players won't use mod in MP, cause none can assure these players does the mod to advantage them or however, which is their balancing skill.

So on it's better for all us to tell there our complaints, and wait for Devs to answer there, and to change something in the next patch, if they choose to.

[Teraswaerto]

The VQ is immortal and can easily become an SC, and she's not too expensive either. It should be pretty obvious why a cheap immortal SC is overpowered.

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I'm calling your bull**** here Norfleet. She's immortal, and won't lose any magic paths for a death.

So get rid of the enemy dominion. You have to do that anyway. A VQ which can't leave its own dominion while you gradually chip the dominion away and move in isn't doing any harm to you. If it's not hurting you, it's not accomplishing anything. It'll have to come out to play sometime.

[Anglachel]

[quote]Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

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Originally posted by Anglachel:
[qb]

You guys are like some puppy worrying a pooh cuddly.

The insults make you look really mature.

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Insult? Just thought it was merely a descriptive turn of phrase. At least that was how I meant it at any rate. Didn't realize also that you could glean maturity from one sentence posted on a board. Guess I should have written something like "You guys fuss about the Vampire Queen too much." But wait, somone might find that insulting as well and question my maturity yet again(curious that you find my maturity a subject of interest). So what is a person to do? Guess I had better not express any opinions then. They could be interpreted as insulting as well!

Seriously though,I just like the image evoked from the phrase I used. Didn't realize you found insult in such things so easily. My apologies to everybody. It's stuff like this that keeps me from posting on Boards usually. I I find this board to be exceptional in lack of taking things out of context, petty bickering, arguing for the sake of arguing, and petty, personal comments that I fail to find has any relevance on the topic at hand. But I guess there are always exceptions. Oh well, I will content myself to sitting on the sidelines and just reading the Boards. Take it easy.

[JaydedOne]

Originally posted by PDF:
Funny how some people react sometimes : on the ground that a VQ is beatable they dismiss the issue of its/her unbalance.
We aren't talking of strategies against VQ, but about balance and variety in Pretenders.

Agreed. VQs are, at face value and after some experience playing them, just a little too much better than the average Pretender. Generally, if I know that there's a Pretender I'll play for 95% of the games (the other 5% being small map, difficult research or something of the like) I enter into with a certain country in MP, it's either a matter of extreme personal taste and comfort or it's a matter of that Pretender having a disproportionate advantage over its fellows.

As has been mentioned in other threads, either the VQ needs a slight power-down (loss of flight or ethereal might be enough) or a good number of other pretenders need a slight power-up.

[rabelais]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
I'm calling your bull**** here Norfleet. She's immortal, and won't lose any magic paths for a death.

So get rid of the enemy dominion. You have to do that anyway. A VQ which can't leave its own dominion while you gradually chip the dominion away and move in isn't doing any harm to you. If it's not hurting you, it's not accomplishing anything. It'll have to come out to play sometime.

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That's extremely difficult to do, with your "mad castling and temple-ing" strat.

It's broken, admit it.

You should be proud that you found a chink in the ruleset armor, but that doesn't mean it needs to be preserved.


Rabe the Large (sacrificial) Lamb.