Surrender, Routing, and Pacificm - Page 2

tinkthank · #11 March 8th, 2004, 05:53 PM

OK I'll go along with that.
And if you don't mind me saying so: I think that *EVEN AS A WARGAME*, it would be great if Dom II (or any wargame for that matter) could *also* consider (or: consider considering?) implement a form of "ius in bello" (as opposed to the simple "ius ad bellum"). I won't make a big deal out of it, and I am certainly not going to blame Illwinter or anyone else for that matter for not doing so, but hey -- one can dream, right? I think it could make the game darn interesting. (And isn't it REALLY also functionally important? If I go around (in today's world) slaughtering helter-skelter, there will be repercussions; ius in bello is not *soley* for moral-goody-goody-ness-vs.-boo-war-is-bad-ness distinctions.)

fahdiz · #12 March 8th, 2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinkthank:
OK I'll go along with that.
And if you don't mind me saying so: I think that *EVEN AS A WARGAME*, it would be great if Dom II (or any wargame for that matter) could *also* consider (or: consider considering?) implement a form of "ius in bello" (as opposed to the simple "ius ad bellum").

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing such an option/strategy in a different game. And no, you are certainly not wrong for dreaming, nor for wanting something different.

Games are like holes in the ground.

Some of them are very broad but rather shallow (they're easier to dig, too), while a select few are narrow yet boundlessly deep. Dominions II is obviously of the latter Category. I haven't yet seen a developer make a game which is simultaneously "all things to all people" (broad) and intensely rich (deep). It could happen in the future, I suppose, but I doubt it.

tinkthank · #13 March 8th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Heh good analogy with the hole.
Well I think you are right. Would be neat to see some of Wauthan's ideas flourish (wouldnt even be that hard to do, I suppose), but until then -- I will just keep quiet, continue dreaming -- and keep having fun playing DomII as it is!

vanedor · #14 March 8th, 2004, 06:28 PM

I agree it would be nice to have a greater good/evil factor in the style of Age of Wonder II. In fact, this game get lot of evil, but very few good.For example, we have an utterly evil nation named Ermor... but no totally good ones. We have no way to make an in-game alliance(in sp) and create a pantheon. You cannot convert except by military conquest. It's all about conquering the whole world in a bloody war. It's not really bad but I wish there could be another way.

For example, I think an enemy/neutral province that has a dominion of X(put a number) and remain that way for more than Y turns should join your cause. Afterall, you are the one they believe in even if your troops arent there.

PhilD · #15 March 8th, 2004, 09:57 PM

Err, this is a game about fighting a religious war of extermination...

There is no good side. There are a lot of bad sides, and a few worse ones.

(Of course, being personally very anti-religious does not help seeing a "good side" in this game... but still...)

Norfleet · #16 March 8th, 2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
Err, this is a game about fighting a religious war of extermination...

That's a bad thing?

Quote:

There is no good side. There are a lot of bad sides, and a few worse ones.

Sure there is. Your side is the good side, duh! And the streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers!

Quote:

(Of course, being personally very anti-religious does not help seeing a "good side" in this game... but still...)

I'm not a terribly big fan of religion either, but if the religion is about worshipping me, that's enough to make me a believer.

PhilD · #17 March 8th, 2004, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

There is no good side. There are a lot of bad sides, and a few worse ones.

Sure there is. Your side is the good side, duh! And the streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers!

Yeah, eye of the beholder and all that...

Doesn't provide too good an argument for giving bonuses to the "good guys"...

(Still, it bothers me a little that, at least in SP, each of my nations ends up summoning either big devils or hordes of undeads, mostly because they're typically not the hungry/greedy types of worshippers... what does that tell about me as a pretender god, I wonder...

)

Kristoffer O · #18 March 8th, 2004, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PhilD:
(Still, it bothers me a little that, at least in SP, each of my nations ends up summoning either big devils or hordes of undeads, mostly because they're typically not the hungry/greedy types of worshippers... what does that tell about me as a pretender god, I wonder... )

It tells us that you are a wise and prudent pretender that values the lives of your faithful servants. I didn't watch your kingdom closely, but I could see several provinces where the dead were toiling the fields and fighting the wars, while your loyal subjects sat in orchards drinking wine and munchin olives.

Let the dead do the dying and the living do the living.

On the blood magic aspect on the other hand, shame on you! Those virgins should have been serving olives to your wine drinking men, dressed in exotic clothing unfit for anything but serving olives.

PhilD · #19 March 9th, 2004, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

On the blood magic aspect on the other hand, shame on you! Those virgins should have been serving olives to your wine drinking men, dressed in exotic clothing unfit for anything but serving olives.

What's the deal with olives and swedes? Do you have some special olive-related fantasy, or what?

ywl · #20 March 9th, 2004, 01:16 AM

It's way off-topic but to me, war is evil. Religious wars are even worse. Any game which glorify or fantasize one side as good, and thus justify the killing of the enemies, is actually more morally repulsive to me

.

The game in its current state is fine.

[ March 08, 2004, 23:40: Message edited by: ywl ]