Change request: Rescuing the Moloch From Whimpy Imps Inc.

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by velk:
I always gave Cthuzul the demonbred assassin a lifelong protection and he never appeared to be remotely fazed by having all his imps wiped out. Perhaps assassination attempts are different ?

Most likely. I recall one of the turn-tip was "You cannot retreat from assasination attempts" or something to that effect. This seemed to mean that you, on the receiving end of such attempts, cannot retreat. However, it seems reasonable that the same holds true for the assassin too.

I supposes it is some sort of No-Retreat oerride switch, used in perhaps Death Match too.

-Gateway103

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Norfleet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper:
A simple fix would be to give such creature generating leaders 50 morale when they enter a battle alone. This is effectively what happens for leaders that don't generate troops.

That, or a "with your shield or on it" checkbox that has been proposed, that disables the auto-flee on loss of all troops for marked leaders. This would solve a lot of other things as well.

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Changing game mechanics and user interface is never simple.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Jasper:
Changing game mechanics and user interface is never simple.

There already is an exception in the code for when an army of commanders only attacks however, which could possibly be used to modify the retreat rules to take into account automatic commander bodyguards.

[Jasper]

True. For example by giving leaders 50 morale in such circumstances...

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by PvK:
Seems pretty obviously to be an AI bug that would be good to change, and I'd second the request, even though there are workarounds.

The one that comes to mind first, is give the Moloch some other troops. I assume is he has another squad that isn't dead, that he won't rout - no?

PvK

True, but if you need to drag other (slow, landbound) troops around to prevent him from fleeing in the early game, even if only few in number, you are giving up the strengths of the Moloch (flying, designed to be a Super Combatant) for what is essentially an army support role - and there are much better pretenders for that, even flying ones in the Virtue, the Prince of Darkness, a Red Dragon, and, arguably, the Phoenix.

There are lots of workarounds, but they all seem to work against either the theme or the relatively high price for the Moloch, considering its vulnerabilities.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Jasper:
True. For example by giving leaders 50 morale in such circumstances...

Awe and Fear wouldn't work...

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Argitoth:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper:
True. For example by giving leaders 50 morale in such circumstances...

Awe and Fear wouldn't work...

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A morale of 30 already means the the unit is unbreakable, so they shouldn't be necessarily affected by these things.

[Tricon]

Agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Ebbesen on this.
Please change the soon to be mightier Moloch.


PS(The mighty Peter Ebbesen leaves the EUII forums? What happened? Is this a short forray into other realms, or a more permanent visit?)

[Vger]

Hi,

There's another option that involves modding. Make the Moloch immortal. I piggybacked some changes onto the Healing Pretender mod. I made several of the pretenders (mostly the undead ones, like the Carrion Dragon) immortal. I also made some pretenders regenerate, little tweaks like that. One of the ones I changed was the Moloch. I haven't had him rout yet.

IMO his paths are way too expensive as he is, so this balances it out some.

Just a thought,
V'ger gone

[tka]

Originally posted by Vger:
Hi,

There's another option that involves modding. Make the Moloch immortal. I piggybacked some changes onto the Healing Pretender mod. I made several of the pretenders (mostly the undead ones, like the Carrion Dragon) immortal. I also made some pretenders regenerate, little tweaks like that. One of the ones I changed was the Moloch. I haven't had him rout yet.

IMO his paths are way too expensive as he is, so this balances it out some.

Just a thought,
V'ger gone

Immortal Moloch! Serious SC-pretender dominance.

Immortal creatures do not retreat when fighting in friendly dominion.

[ February 10, 2004, 07:46: Message edited by: Morag ]