Is growth scale must in a long game? - Page 2

Graeme Dice · #11 December 17th, 2003, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Treebeard:
What are those? I certainly get hit by a bunch of nasty effects with lucky 3... [/QB]

They are ones that can cause the loss of a quarter of the population in one turn and so on.

Keir Maxwell · #12 December 17th, 2003, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Treebeard:
What are those? I certainly get hit by a bunch of nasty effects with lucky 3...

They are ones that can cause the loss of a quarter of the population in one turn and so on. [/QB]

I seem to have had my fair share of these playing turmoil luck races with luck at +3. The problem might be that your dominion spreads unevenly and the turmoil scale produces alot of catastrophic events. On the other hand playing order3, misfortune3 has seemed the way to go for avoiding bad events. The problem is you don't get your national hero's. I do enjoy getting hero's with luck races.

Cheers

Keir

Keir Maxwell · #13 December 17th, 2003, 04:57 AM

The key to long games is death3. Abysia doesn't get supply problems from death so Abysia death3 is a good choice for along game.

I have always found the biggest problem with a long PBEM game is how long they go. If you are doing well you reach a terrifying point when you realise you are incapable of getting your turn in on time without:

a) lose your job, partner and access to the kids.
b) play like a moron and having to manage a life while the game slowly falls to bits.
c) ask for an extention in the time between turns.

After trying c) a couple of times someone goes on holiday. when they get back 15 days later you can just remember enough to get your turn done but it seems someone else lost track and by the time their move is in its been over 4 weeks between turns and you are faced with horror of having trying an make sense of what was going on in your huge empire with all its myriads of armies, mages, assasins and spys. Basically its a choice of a) or b) or the new c) try and persuade everyone the game is a dead duck and its time to move on.

So this should make it blindingly obvious (

)why the best approach to pop management in a long game is death3 - kill the buggers! All of them! Expand like a berserk monstrosity and pummel your opponents into submistion before micro-management tedium kills the fun.

A good game is quick game!

Keir

[ December 17, 2003, 04:07: Message edited by: Keir Maxwell ]

ywl · #14 December 17th, 2003, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:
Growth +3 will give you a significant income boost in a long game all other things being usefull, but it's slow enough that spending those 120 points on something usefull early is probably at least as good.

Growth +3 is certainly no where near as mandatory as Order +3 and Misfortune +3, which is both more powerfull and cheaper.

I don't use this combo. I'll see how bad I'll do in my game.

Jasper · #15 December 17th, 2003, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ywl:

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper:
Growth +3 is certainly no where near as mandatory as Order +3 and Misfortune +3, which is both more powerfull and cheaper.

I don't use this combo. I'll see how bad I'll do in my game.

I'm curious to hear the outcome, but there are so many other factors involved in multiplayer (e.g. opponent skill, faction mathup, multiplayer dynamics, etc.) that it will be difficult to tell what effect anyone particular thing has had on how well you do, especially since you can't easily try the same scenario with a different Pretender.

IMHO the relative benefits of scales are much more easily compared in single player games, where you can more carefully control the environment.

For me it was as simple as comparing Order 3 + Misfortune 3 Pangaea, vs. the same Pretender with Turmoil 3 + Luck 3. This should be biased towards T+L, as Pangaea gets extra beneft from both, but for my test O+M was far more effective.

L+T in my experience can keep up with O+M, but only if you get extraordinarily lucky.

[ December 17, 2003, 05:28: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Pocus · #16 December 17th, 2003, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Jasper:
Growth +3 is certainly no where near as mandatory as Order +3 and Misfortune +3, which is both more powerfull and cheaper.

I never take misfortune 3 if I don't absolutely have to, as I don't want the really bad events to have any chance of happening. The most destructive ones only happen at misfortune 3, so I simply remove the possibility altogether by never going over 2. [/QB]

I suggest you make some tests and see if it is as unbearable as you think. Order 3 luck -3 give you only 5% chance a turn of getting an event.

Treebeard · #17 December 17th, 2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:
Originally posted by Treebeard:
What are those? I certainly get hit by a bunch of nasty effects with lucky 3...

They are ones that can cause the loss of a quarter of the population in one turn and so on. [/QB]

If you mean rain, then no, you get those with luck 3, and a lot. If you mean restlessness, then no again, you can get those even with luck 3. If you talking about plagues and such, then no (but they are dependent on your death scale).

I can't say one single event I haven't seen in both luck 3 and unluck 3 dominion (but a lot are dependent on your other scales).

Argitoth · #18 December 17th, 2003, 11:41 AM

I can tell you why a random event for an increase of population is plain unrealistic.

First of all, if there was an increase in population, it would mean there was more babies born this month than usual. That's completely unrealistic. More population = more population. There cannot be a random even for population growth. Even if there was a sudden increase of population, do you really think 1-month old babies can pay tax?

The only realistic event for population growth is immigration.

Immigration can be good or bad. Population increases or decreases in a province you own while decreasing or increasing in a province you do not own.

Graeme Dice · #19 December 17th, 2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

I can't say one single event I haven't seen in both luck 3 and unluck 3 dominion (but a lot are dependent on your other scales).

The 1500 gold event is for luck 3 provinces only for example.

Chris Byler · #20 December 17th, 2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Argitoth:
I can tell you why a random event for an increase of population is plain unrealistic.

First of all, if there was an increase in population, it would mean there was more babies born this month than usual. That's completely unrealistic. More population = more population. There cannot be a random even for population growth. Even if there was a sudden increase of population, do you really think 1-month old babies can pay tax?

The only realistic event for population growth is immigration.

Immigration can be good or bad. Population increases or decreases in a province you own while decreasing or increasing in a province you do not own.

Well, you'd think that, wouldn't you? But in fact, the only migration-related event is emigration, population decreases in a province you own and doesn't show up anywhere else in the world.

Immigration - either from someone else's provinces or from nowhere - would be nice, but it never actually happens.

Besides, when you talk about what events would be "realistic" you forget that Dom II is a fantasy game... there's no reason you couldn't throw a handful of teeth on the ground and have citizens spring up from it (to bend a mythological example). Or every woman in the province gives birth to twins, or something fantastic like that.