Question about Ulm and iron faith - Page 2

Keir Maxwell · #11 November 6th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leif_-:

quote:
Originally posted by PDF:
[In the end IF Ulm looks unbalanced to me - or at least worse than standard Ulm, note also that you have to PAY for getting IF theme !

Blessable knights, however, are down right evil. Try a pretender with Death 6, Earth 6 or Nature 4, Earth 6 or a green dragon with Nature 9 - and base your initial game on blessed knights.

I agree with Leif on the general point. If you play the IF theme and don't abuse the whole sacred thing then I you are missing a big part of the advanategs of IF Ulm. Ulm IF is particularily magic weak so bless effects become a good substitute as you start with them (no need to rersearch them) and they are just like magic really. Also a pretender with powerful bless effects can make a good research at the start to get construction up.

Happy Metalling,

Keir

Karacan · #12 November 6th, 2003, 12:01 PM

Many players stated in other threads that Ulm's speciality lies in heavy infantry... which I entirely disagree. I've always been a fan of the Black Knights, and blessed templars with the right dominion now finally don't suffer Ulm's major weakness: They can survive a few misplaced arbalest bolts.

Magic is for weaklings, have faith!

iRichard · #13 November 6th, 2003, 12:09 PM

I didn't see you quoted the forging ability of black priest.

Try a game with a difficult research setting. take iron faith (of course). god design : 3drain, 1growth, 3prod, 1order, 1misfo, strong dominion. leave research until you find a libray.

You'll have stronger armies (as long as you fight in your dominion).

For quick games it's a valid startegy, of course in a long term it may be less viable to bet on Iron faith.

Treebeard · #14 November 6th, 2003, 01:35 PM

BTW, does anyone know if the constructs are considered holy units in the golem cult? That would make them very interesting.

Nagot Gick Fel · #15 November 6th, 2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
I must say that as of now, I'm not that happy with themes. Many have a big potential, not necessarly in power, but in originality. But as of now, they are either underpowered, or not polished enough, with loopholes found in many places.

I think national themes and generic ones should be kept distinct, so you could pick one of each - eg, Serpent Cult + Water Cult for Pythium, Niefelheim + Heart of Winter for Jotunheim, Iron Faith + Ceremonial Faith for Ulm - all seem thematic.

About strictly national themes, I don't think Serpent Cult and Miasma are underpowered (well, about the former, it may look so when you compare it to the overpowered regular Pythium). Blood of Humans and Iron Faith certainly are. Anyway let's wait for a couple more weeks before forging opinions.

Pocus · #16 November 6th, 2003, 05:24 PM

sure, and I think the MP frequency of these themes will be a good indicator on how they are balanced (or not). Because MP is a very competitive environment, where people make tests before playing.

I was a bit cooled down on theme, after having tried Blood of Human Desert Tombs, and then Serpent Cult. Serpent Cult is not that bad, but compared to regular Pythium dont stand in power. If themes are only there for SP, because they are underpowered, then it would be a pity.

Nagot Gick Fel · #17 November 6th, 2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Treebeard:
BTW, does anyone know if the constructs are considered holy units in the golem cult? That would make them very interesting.

The description says cult constructs get more health when built in your dominion - how much more BTW? Is it dependent on dominion strength?. If you add holiness on top of that - wow! Now what kind of blessing would you prefer on a Crusher? A Golem? A Gargoyle? An Iron Dragon?

Treebeard · #18 November 6th, 2003, 05:34 PM

I don't think the bless bonus would meant much to a crusher (besides regeneration, which I doubt would be allowed). Possible astral would be good, for the extra MR, but that's about it.

Now, if the the HT bonus is similar to the one found in pretender and prophets, then it would be too strong IMHO.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by Treebeard:
BTW, does anyone know if the constructs are considered holy units in the golem cult? That would make them very interesting.

The description says cult constructs get more health when built in your dominion - how much more BTW? Is it dependent on dominion strength?. If you add holiness on top of that - wow! Now what kind of blessing would you prefer on a Crusher? A Golem? A Gargoyle? An Iron Dragon?

Taqwus · #19 November 6th, 2003, 06:36 PM

Keir -- Agreed. Worse magic (through worse research) + fast, powerful sacred units => emphasize might even more.
The Templars are the high point of Iron Faith, so they should be exploited to the max with berserk or flaming weapons or reinvigoration or whatever-have-you.

licker · #20 November 6th, 2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
sure, and I think the MP frequency of these themes will be a good indicator on how they are balanced (or not). Because MP is a very competitive environment, where people make tests before playing.

I was a bit cooled down on theme, after having tried Blood of Human Desert Tombs, and then Serpent Cult. Serpent Cult is not that bad, but compared to regular Pythium dont stand in power. If themes are only there for SP, because they are underpowered, then it would be a pity.

I have faith that the themes will get better balanced once the full game is out, and more people have a chance to fully explore them

Besides why not have a PBEM where each nation has to take a theme? A non-standard nation matchup or whatever you want to call it. Not every MP game has to be an open format

Anyway, there's always idiots like me who prefer to use the themes for 'personal' reasons, even if it would appear to be a disadvantage