Blood of humans theme

[Mortifer]

BoH is a weak theme, there are lot better themes for various nations.
I guess themes are fun, but sometime the original setup is better.

[johan osterman]

Originally posted by Pocus:
thinking a bit more on the theme, I think this would not be sufficient to equilibrate it. The problem of assassin only in capital (and thus the only sneak unit with scouting capacity) is also a bit problematic.

some suggestion again :

the aforementioned humanbred blood mage transformed into a 'Blood Cultist', blood 1 with assassination power. Now that would give a very strong distinct flavor to the BoH theme, as this assassin would be rather powerful.

powerful => not cheap, so could fix the problem of having a cheap blood mage too (thinking of the starpawn with some increase in gold cost)

Isn't really much of an issue with just having a sneak unit in capital, since indep scouts are plentiful, and if it were an expenisve sneaking mage wouldn't answer the problem anyway.

Not that I am against the idea as such, but for the assasin/bloodmage to use his magic in battle he requires bloodslaves, and it would look a little funny when the assasin mage performs his assasination with his harem of nubile young bloodslaves tagging along.

[ November 07, 2003, 15:01: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

[Gandalf Parker]

[quote]Originally posted by johan osterman:

Not that I am against the idea as such, but for the assasin/bloodmage to use his magic in battle he requires bloodslaves, and it would look a little funny when the assasin mage performs his assasination with his harem of nubile young bloodslaves tagging along.

Ooooh one of my most favorite tactics. I often create assassins (with that heart) out of blood mages that can sneak (pandemoniac, heliophagus). I love them casting Hellbind heart to force the target to change sides, then the next event in that province is a combat between that commander and the troops still in the province. Sometimes he even wins the province for me. Then I collect a few blood slaves and move on.

For non-blood assassins I often give them the skull talisman because the skeletons that show up often distract long enough for the assassin to do its job. Blood slaves serve the same purpose.

I especially love the Helophagus. Flying all over the map doing his assassinantions until the Last commander takes the province (no guessing when to attack). The sneaking demons he creates make a great backup for any time he happens to get spotted and attacked.

[Pocus]

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Isn't really much of an issue with just having a sneak unit in capital, since indep scouts are plentiful, and if it were an expenisve sneaking mage wouldn't answer the problem anyway.

well the main problem is that in BoH Abysia can only produce assassins in the same province as his good mages and priests. I concur that for spying indep scouts would be fine.

Not that I am against the idea as such, but for the assasin/bloodmage to use his magic in battle he requires bloodslaves, and it would look a little funny when the assasin mage performs his assasination with his harem of nubile young bloodslaves tagging along.

I thought of that, and discarded the fact as of few importance. Because in dom1 we have already blood commanders which are used as assassins, and nobody find that they have slaves attached silly (heliophagus as deluxe assassins with black heart), and most importantly because I think that the 'realism' is already detrimental enough in some game features (too low growth rate partly because of realism, just an example)

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Pocus:
Just saw another thing : Abysian Slayer are also only recruitable in the capital.

So you have to choose between : assassin, high priest or blood mage each time. The bottleneck is even bigger than I thought!

What commanders do they have that aren't capitol only?

Well, I guess every province has an independent commander of some sort. But those aren't heat resistant.

I think people who are talking about "recruitable everywhere" are neglecting the fact that it is actually everywhere with a fortress. And it looks like BoH is even more capitol dependent than Dom I Man, thus fortified city seems a likely choice for them. So "every fortress" isn't really that many places.

I really can't think of many uses for the Newt. He's not that good a researcher without a magic scale (which you aren't allowed to take). He can't cast any rituals. With a gem he can cast Flame Bolt (and probably miss). He can preach - but not very well. He can sacrifice blood slaves - if someone else finds them for him. Basically he's an Inquisitor with less priest powers (who builds Inquisitors to use them as mages, anyway?) and without the bonus to suppress enemy dominion - for almost the same cost as a real Inquisitor.

The one thing he is good for is building - he can build both labs and temples, and doesn't cost very much. But you don't need that many commanders for building.

In fact, I don't think BoH needs a new mage: they need Newts to gain 1 Blood so they can be junior Demonbreds (to replace the loss of the real Demonbreds). Increase cost to 110-120 (he is a better mage than an Inquisitor but an inferior priest). Now he can find and sacrifice his own blood slaves, find blood slaves for someone else, research better (especially with no magic scale), forge Fire/Blood items (like the demon whip), and perhaps most importantly, be a sabbath slave.

Maybe I'm just dissatisfied because I didn't get the Warlock Apprentice I wanted (as an Abysia player): I was expecting Blood-1 for 60-70 (like the Marignon and Atlantis initiates), recruitable at any fortress/lab (the proposed Newt would need a temple too, but make up for it by being sacred and having fire too). That would have put Abysia in the communion race with C'tis and even Pythium. The powerful Abysian mages are expensive, so I want them to be really powerful, and communion is one of the ways to do that.


In case you really don't want to give BoH a hand in blood magic (but they will be handicapped in research compared to most magic-focused nations because they can't take a magic scale), I just had another new idea for BoH: standard Abysia doesn't use bows because "they would turn to cinders in the hands of the Abysians", right? So why not a Humanbred Archer or Humanbred Crossbowman? Humanbreds wouldn't have the same problems with lighting their bows on fire (and in fact, some Humanbreds already use wooden equipment such as spears). This might make up for the decreased availability of mages on the battlefield (although it doesn't do much for the research problem). I think this is very thematically appropriate for BoH - they're more like humans, and all human nations (that I can think of) use some sort of missile troops.

Giving javelins to the BoH humanbreds would be another interesting option.