OT: Atrocities

[Aiken]

OMG, you guys amased me. This CAN happen, if the "blood for blood and arm for arm" principle will dominate in this war in both sides of conflict.

[ May 01, 2004, 20:04: Message edited by: aiken ]

[Slynky]

Well, LordOffender, I understand your POV. However, I don't think "They mistreated our POWs so we are justified in mistreating theirs." is a good way to live life or conduct an affair under world scrutiny. To "win" this situation in Iraq, if indeed it is even possible, acting in a humane way is at least one of the keys.

[Will]

AT, Slick:

I believe aiken was saying what *could* happen, if the view of LordOffender is allowed to hold sway. Not something that actually *did* happen.

--edit: and it looks like I was a bit slow on the response
To me, as soon as I read aiken's original post, I was reminded of 1984, and the hate held for the "enemy", which at any point could be Eurasia or Eastasia...

--edit2: ... and I just noticed that LordOffender's first post was this one. At the risk of going off topic -- Welcome to the Boards, LordOffender. Please don't get discouraged by the "hot-button" threads like these, we really are all nice people, it's just there can be some heated disagreements

[ May 01, 2004, 20:17: Message edited by: Will ]

[Aiken]

And I have to add another thing. The problem you discussing is not about soldiers, but about their commanders. If they're unable to keep cast-iron discipline in their troops, they are not officers, but f*king managers.
And I don't belive it's impossible to find 1000 leaders with stable psyche and great will to command a 100,000 of casuals.

[Atrocities]

Will, I see now. Thanks for clarifying it.

If taken in that light what Aiken said would more than likely come to pass if the situation is allowed to continue and the US and its allies are forced to leave before a solid democratic government can be established.

[ May 01, 2004, 21:24: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Renegade 13]

I think the biggest problem is lack of real, quality information. Not the stuff the news media hands us, which is always slanted one way or the other, but real hard facts that cannot be disputed. Sure, pictures could be considered "hard" evidence, but we all know pictures can be manipulated to show whatever people want.

I'm not saying the pictures of torture and abuse are false, I'm just saying that we really have no way of knowing what is really happening over there in Iraq. No one does, except those who are over there, fighting for their lives.

For this reason, I think it is very difficult to form an opinion on matters such as these, when all of us here lack any quality information.

And here's a scary thought: What atrocities are occurring over there that we know nothing about?? Perhaps by the forces of both sides of the conflict??

[ May 01, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ]

[Aiken]

I'm personally far from idea that american soldiers are bloodthirsty slaughterers. They're simply human, who can fear, hate and want to avenge. But if your foe is animal you don't have to be animal too. Where is only way to prevent soldiers from being murderers - order.
Remember legions of Roman empire. They fought with wild tribes but they kept the high culture of war, and their famous discipline brought them victories, not superior "high-tech" weapon.
If US wants to achive some results in Iraq, your generals have to use this ancient experience.

[ May 01, 2004, 21:32: Message edited by: aiken ]

[primitive]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
.
.
1. News agencies are reporting that the SSgt who ran the camp somewhat claimed something to the effect that he wasn't trained on the geneva convention. Hogwash. I remember during my service that was reinforced ad nauseum, from basic training to promotion tests. He should have known better.

Geneva convention ?
AFAIK the Geneva convention is not in effect in Iraq. The Geneva convention regulates (among other things) how to treat prisoners of war. Apart from Saddam himself (and maybe a select few others) there are no Prisoners of War in Iraq. Only detainees and terror suspects. The great GWB himself set the standard how to treat those when he set both the Geneva convention and US law aside with the Guantamo prisoners. Why should the prisoners in Iraq have a different and better status ? The blame goes all the way to the top.

[primitive]

Re: LordOffenders (the sock puppet ?) post.
This really fails to piss me off. Ignorant Idiots are everywhere. They are only dangerous when assembled in large numbers (like in Al Qaeda or the KKK) or when elected president

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Will:

--edit2: ... and I just noticed that LordOffender's first post was this one. At the risk of going off topic -- Welcome to the Boards, LordOffender. Please don't get discouraged by the "hot-button" threads like these, we really are all nice people, it's just there can be some heated disagreements

Exactly. We're all familiar with the concept of a TROLL here, aren't we? Doesn't the name strike you as a bit suspicious?

[ May 01, 2004, 22:49: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]