Alien, I mean really Alien.

[dogscoff]

but I wouldn't call their thoughts "totally alien". They're very easy to relate to - not very far from human thoughts and emotions in many ways, even if there are differences

The only reason that their behaviour doesn't seem "totally alien" to us is that we are used to it. We understand (or think we do) the way animals think because we have studied them and/ or domesticated them and/or try to interpret their behaviour using our human behaviour as a template. If we landed on an alien planet and saw a bunch of creatures with the exact same behaviour, intelligence and level of communication as dolphins we would spend decades trying to communicate with them because we would think there was a chance they were sentient.

not very far from human thoughts and emotions

As I said, there are similarities but they will occur almost everywhere we find life. Any life form on any planet that needs to learn the value of running away will develop fear- or something very similar to fear. Parallel evolution.

Any life form that benefits from living ina society will evolve bonds with others within its society- friendship, love, comradeship, pack mentality- call it what you will.

U_E: Yeah, I miss xenology too, although I really didn't have time for it, and my KanesS story didn't make any damn sense at all. It was a great idea, and it spawned some really promising stories.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

so, Dogscoff, what your saying is that they may develop a fear reaction, but they won't be feeling fear? So, your thinking of neural and chemical reactions? I still say a human can replicate, same thing as simulate when your talking about the brain, any of those. Ok, maybe not the exact chemical interactions, but there results.

[ March 25, 2004, 11:16: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[dogscoff]

Dogscoff, what your saying is that they may develop a fear reaction, but they won't be feeling fear?

Well, if it serves the same purpose as fear, and it provokes the same response as fear... why don't we just call it fear? There will undoubtedly be biological differences but the end result is the same. After all, how do i know that when *you* feel fear you feel the same thing as me? How do I know you don't see red as what I would call call blue?

It's like the Turing test for AI: You can't know for sure whether a machine is actually intelligent or just doing a really good impression of one that is, but when it gets to that stage there's very little point trying to tell the difference anyway.

[Puke]

No, I was never aware that there were 15 other Types. (a Type is above a Genus, right? or is that a Family? I cant remember much biology) But I would be very interested if you could post links to information.

It would be good for fictional race creation, if not edification for its own sake.

The most alien races i have read about are probably H.P. Lovecraft's Great Old Ones, unfathomable intelects that operate in more dimensions than we can understand. they are often misrepresented as evil, but im sure their motivations are perfectly sane to them, we just cant understand them.

[geoschmo]

How much of what we know as the fear emotion in ourselves is merely a biological and chemical reaction? What if we can demonstrate some day that our own "intelligence" is merely the result of an incredibly complicated set of chemical and biological reactions, as some people believe.

If we meet aliens some day, I will be less concerned with whether we can understand it and recognize it as intelligent, and more concerned with whether we can convince them that we are actually intelligent, and not merely doing a very good "impression".

[Puke]

okay, a quick web search reveals that it goes CLASS > ORDER > FAMILY > GENUS > SPECIES

where class is things like insect or mamal, which is probably what we have five of and you say there are 15 more. I believe there is something above class with three enteries, Plant, Animal, or Fungus.

actually, on further reading it seems that class is far mor specific, containing things like insect, crustation, molusk, arachnid. maybe its not more specific, but there are more things in that Category than i gave credit for.

AH! more reading brings back the old memories! Kingdom and Phylum are the higher level categores, kingdom being Animal, Plant, or Fungi. Phylum is probably what we are talking about, being a much broader classification than Class.

[Puke]

my god, theres certainly more than 5 Phylum. The vast majority of them are worms various kinds of worms of dubious distinction, while snails, clams, squids, and octopi all get lumped together as mollusks. is there really all that much setting those worms apart?

should we come up with a new clasification method based on DNA, rather than whaever observational methods we were using when we developed the current method? Id wager its at least a hundred years old, possibly two or three.

[dogscoff]

Animal, Plant, or Fungi

I'm pretty sure there are a number of microscopic squidgies that fit into none of the above, kind of the way a duck billed platypus doesn't sit happily as either mammal, bird or reptile. I think amoebas and protozoa are somewhere between fungus and animal, for instance. Bacteria and virii might be others. It's a long time since i had to know these things...

[Puke]

hey, mollusk seems to exist at both the class and phylum level, what gives? thats what i get for using the Internet as a source of information...

[dogscoff]

should we come up with a new clasification method based on DNA, rather than whaever observational methods we were using when we developed the current method? Id wager its at least a hundred years old, possibly two or three.

Yeah, stuff is being recategorised all the time as DAN information comes to light.

For instance, rabbits used to be rodents, but now they're not. They go into a group with hares.

[ March 25, 2004, 15:49: Message edited by: dogscoff ]