Mod/Extension Posted

[Talenn]

Tampa_Gamer:

Ok, I've fired up a few games using non-default races to test out some of the new gadgets. It does work fine. Its good to see the AI using some of the new toys.

A few other questions/comments...

1) The defense ship concept is good, but it ties up the AI resources in ships that are otherwise useless if not fighting Missile/Fighter races. I tend to have the latter, but others I've watched play dont bother and thus a decent portion of the AI's fleets are essentially useless. I'm not sure what the solution is here as the AI has no 'response' routines, only a stock build queue.

2) The AI needs to research and deploy 'planetary weapons' to compensate for the new defenses and the change in damage to kill one pop. As it is now, it often bombards ineffectively with its stock ships. A human player builds the planet busters and is none the worse (although I like the effect), but the AI loses capability.

3) I'm not sure the Shield Generators produce enough to be worthwhile. They are taking up valuable space on your planets and dont really protect you all that much. I'd probably increase the base level of the shielding and have it increase at a flatter rate...just my suggestion.

4) I'm thinking about experimenting down this path and wanted to check and see if you had already done so and with what results: Adding additional design types to the defaults and then using these types to encourage the AI to build differing ship types. For example: Add 'Bombardment Ship' to the list, then add a 'design type' to the AI designs for the 'Bombardment Ship' and finally, insert it into the AI's build percentages. The same could also be done to encourage the AI to build 'Missile Support' Ships or to have some Torpedo ships and some Beam ships etc. This is similar in scope to your addition of 'defense ships' to the AI's routines.

5) You mentioned the possibility of making it so that it is impossible to land on a planet with Shields up. Personally, I like it the way it is now as it might encourage defensive troops. Also, it fits with some Sci-Fi concepts of dumping troops to knock out the Shield Generators etc.

Ok, I'll post more as I find out more about the workings of the AI. Please continue to do the same. I am VERY interested to see your revamped race personalities.

Thanx for your time and work,

Talenn

[Talenn]

Ebonyknight:

Sure, its fairly easy. Go into the 'Data' directory and open the 'VehicleSize.txt' file. Find the ships you want to change and change the 'Requirement Max Engines' line to 7 or 8 or whatever you want.

I'm actually expermenting a bit with adding a Tech Area for 'Hull Streamlining' which will make the faster ES/FG/DD/CL hulls available. That way it wont trip up the AI (it simply wont research them) and it holds no danger of upseting the early game balance between missiles and speed. I'll let you know how it works out if you are interested.

Talenn

[Tampa_Gamer]

Talenn:

Thanks for the feedback. Actually the defense ship concept is supposed to include a repair component or more when the AI gets big enough ships. This way they are not useless if there are no missile/fighters. Did you see any repair components? I may need to tweak this some more, but I wanted the AI fleets to contain "repairers" as most human opponents do.

On the AI attacking planets you are correct, I found the AI rocket pod fighters do fine, but if they use beam weapons against the planet, no dice. Again, this may need additional tweaking.

If a number of people are interested in creating MOO races, we should divide them up so that we are not duplicating our efforts (I have started on the Darloks). Then we can combine our files in the end to create a race extension.

[Talenn]

Tampa_Gamer:

Ok, well, I'd like to divy up the races so we dont duplicate effort, but at the moment, I'm not quite up to snuff on how to tweak the AI personalities yet. I'm still very much in the 'experimental' stage.

I'm actually looking forward to your Darloks so I could use that as a benchmark to learn. Are you going to include custom 'Speech', 'Anger', and 'Politics' etc files? It seems like ALOT of work, but I think that will really be the only way to get distinctive feeling races. Also, I'd assume you'd have to revamp the 'Colony Type' and whatnot files to encourage it to build more Intel Facilities. Also, are you going to use custom pictures as well? I know that is one particular aspect I'm helpless in. I cant draw 3d ships worth a darn. It would be neat to get the old MOO pictures for the Race Portraits etc though.

I'll pay more attention to whether or the not the AI is using the repair module. It was late Last night when I was messing with it and I honestly didnt check in the games I played.

Hope to see your Darlok mod soon. I'll continue to experiment as well and compare notes.

Talenn

[Ebonyknight]

Talenn,

What settings have you found that work for you smaller ship/faster speed idea? I was going to bump up the number of engines one each so that DD was 7 and ES was 9.

But you mentioned something about the missle speed. Does this make them faster than missles? Where can you edit missle speed to compensate for this? How does it all play out with the faster ships?

Let me know about your mods (both of you actually).

[Tampa_Gamer]

Missile (Seeker) speed is adjusted in the "Component.txt" file in the ...\Data directory and yes, unfortunately I think that would create an imbalance with early Seeker speeds, they recently tweaked the speed in the 1.11 patch to further balance this concept. I do like the ideal of additional uses in late games for smaller ships though. . .

[Talenn]

EbonyKnight:

I have added the 'Streamlined Hulls' Tech Area to my set and my initial tests show that it is working.

Basically, I have it set so that at level 5 Ship Construction, a new area opens that when researched gives you access to the 4 new, faster Hull Types. I also gave them an increased (5%) defensive bonus to make them seem more attractive later in the game as well. I may increases this defensive bonus as well in an effort to make the small ships viable into the later stages of the game.

My new Hull Types are capable of 8 Engines for the ES/FG/DD and 7 for the CL. I was hesitant about allowing these speeds in the early game when the weapons are so slow and short ranged. I wouldnt want to tweak the Missile Speeds any further at this point either. I think they are fine as they are overall.

I'll let you know how it works out in the games I'm playing. If you make the changes and notice something you like or dont like, please let me know as well.

Talenn

[Baron Munchausen]

I must question whether all of these things work the way you think they do. Not all abilities transfer from components to facilities or vice versa, and MM has not clearly documented which ones do or do not.

The "Change Ground Defense" ability description in abilities.txt says it changes GROUND combat. Given how tough it is for troops to conquer a planet, maybe this is not a good idea right now. But, yeah, the ability has been there for a while and MM has not got around to making a facility to use it. Same for Planetary Shields. There's nothing but the "artifact" technology. I have added both types of facilites to my custom techs.

The "Combat to Hit Dec" ability doesn't work with Weapons Platforms, just like multiplex tracking. In both cases the planet's attributes super-cede the units abilities. I doubt that either of these works with facilities either. Have you verified that this works somehow?

There is also no reason to think that adding research point generation to a component would work. I tried it a long time ago and it did NOT work. It is certainly possible that the game has been changed but there was never any announcement of this. Have you tested this and proved that giving a Medical Bay this ability actually produces any research points? Or that adding intelligence point generation to the various sensors really produces any intelligence points?

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 27 November 2000).]

[Talenn]

All:

Baron is indeed correct about the 'Point Generation' on Components. I hadnt added that part of the Tampa_Gamer's Mod to my set but decided to try it out as an experiment. The points are not added.

Baron:

Well, in the absence of any information, its trial and error. In this case, he was not able to accomplish what he wanted, but at least an effort was made. As a tester, you have access to far more info than the end user. At this point, I'm just as happy to see someone experimenting in this fashion so we can all benefit.

If you have any further info that we can use (and obviously only if doesnt violate any NDA's ), please throw it out there whenever/wherever you can. It might save some of us alot of time in trial and error mistakes if we know that someone else has already tried it.

Thank for the catch on Tampa_Gamer's mod and please add your input to any other mod discussions. Experience is very helpful with these types of mods methinx

Talenn

[Jubala]

quote:

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Originally posted by Talenn:
I have added the 'Streamlined Hulls' Tech Area to my set and my initial tests show that it is working.

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Sounds great. I'd like to see the filechanges you made.

A question. I assume it's impossible to retrofit an old frigate to a design based on the new streamlined hull, right?