Important Math Question

[Grandpa Kim]

If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite number of earth-like worlds, and infinite number of alien civilizations, and the sky would be not be blue but the color, brightness and intensity of your average sun 24/7. Half of infinity is still infinity!

Frankly, we could not survive an infinite universe. Of necessity the temperature would be far beyond what our bodies could stand. I mean, we are talking thermonuclear temperatures.

Since this is not true, the universe is not infinite.

Yep, centillion is huge, but it's pretty miniscule next to infinity.

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite number of earth-like worlds, and infinite number of alien civilizations, and the sky would be not be blue but the color, brightness and intensity of your average sun 24/7. Half of infinity is still infinity!

Frankly, we could not survive an infinite universe. Of necessity the temperature would be far beyond what our bodies could stand. I mean, we are talking thermonuclear temperatures.

Since this is not true, the universe is not infinite.

Yep, centillion is huge, but it's pretty miniscule next to infinity.

Not true at all. Look at Hubble's Deep Field photographs sometime- you see entire galaxies that aren't even visible to the naked eye. Infititely sized means infinitely far away, as well. And heat? Do you feel any heat from the stars at night? Didn't think so, and those are the closest ones. Heat does trail off the further you get from an object.

[Grandpa Kim]

Can't agree with you Phoenix-D. You are still underestimating infinity. In an infinite universe, there will be a star in every direction you care to point, in fact, an infinite number of them. Therefore, you are being bombarded by an infinite number of photons. True, each photon puts out an immeasurable amount of heat but that tiny amount is still there.

Do the math:

Infinity x immeasurable = ?

[Phoenix-D]

Ah, but most of the stars will also be at an infinite distance. If a galaxy can be receeded to an invisible pinpoint, smaller than stars even in Hubble's view, then I don't doubt a group of galaxies could do the same.

EDIT: in other words, most of the photons don't even reach any point you'd care to name. Or just haven't yet; light, whatever else it may do, does have a finite speed.

Infinite stars, true. But also infite space..

[ November 01, 2003, 17:18: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Infinite stars, true. But also infite space..

And infinite time.

No limits to infinity, please.

[atari_eric]

Not to mention, infinite amount of stuff in the way! Anything from dust particles to Huge planets.

Since we're on the subject of math, does anyone know the formula for finding the area of a 4-dimensional sphere? Assuming an equal radius for all 4 axes...

(spelling)

[ November 01, 2003, 17:29: Message edited by: atari_eric ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Not to mention, infinite amount of stuff in the way! Anything from dust particles to Huge planets.

... which is also being bombarded by an infinite number of photons and has thus been heated up to stellar temperatures and is now emitting photons itself.

LOL... Just think, there are an infinite number of Shrapnel Forums discussing this very same subject. An infinite number of Grandpa Kims, an infinite number of Phoenix-Ds, an infinite number of Atari_Erics... and an infinite number of advanced aliens laughing their asses off at our silly antics.

I'm beginning to think that infinity is a total fiction invented by the human mind. The inherent contradictions won't allow its existence. It doesn't exist and cannot exist.

[Grandpa Kim]

Since we're on the subject of math, does anyone know the formula for finding the area of a 4-dimensional sphere? Assuming an equal radius for all 4 axes...

Sorry can't help you there but how about an additional question:

the formula for the 3D volume of a 4 dimensional sphere? This would be analogous to the area of a 3D sphere.

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:

quote:

---

Infinite stars, true. But also infite space..

And infinite time.

No limits to infinity, please.

---

Actually even an infinite universe could have a finite start. And you are still leaving infite space out of the equation. If space is infinite, all the stars that would cause that problem could be on the "other side" of infinity. Photons aren't infinite, and with every step you loose energy.

Put it this way: it is entirely possible to have an infinite number of stars in an infinite volume- and still have each star so far apart that none of the others would be visible to the naked eye. Or to have each star several trillion light -millenia- away from each other.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

if the universe is infinite in size, the distance between us and any galaxy will still not be infinite.

what if, at extreme distances, photon's degraded and were absorbed into the general background? infinite energy/infinite space = finite amount of energy/finite amount of space.

then you could have an infinite universe without being baked.