OT: US Pres election

[Azselendor]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

I was against that because it hasn't changed anything. We all knew it wouldn't before they passed it. Somebody(s) made out like a bandit. Did you see how joyful the president looked as it showed him signing that bill? Personally ,I've never seen him so happy.
It failed the first vote probably because at the last minute,they needed more golden parachutes. So a revised package was in order.

You can't get anything done in DC without greasing it up with some pork.

Why don't they just classify that sort of crap as bribes?

[Edratman]

I have become very angry about spreading the onus of the mortgage crisis between the lenders and borrowers.

1. If a person is not qualified for a standard loan/mortgage there is an insignificent probability that they are capable of accurately assessing their financial situation vis-a-vis a substantial debt obligation.
2. If unqualified borowers are assured by someone in a white shirt and tie that their debt obligation is free of risk, they are probably easily convinced that everything is okay.
3. Twenty five years ago, if you did not qualify for a loan froma financial instituion, you could knock on every single door and still not obtain a loan. Thus all the power was, and still is, in the hands of the lenders. On rare ocasions people were able to obtain loans when there was substantial risk, but the lender made a conscious decision to grant the loan for some defined and/or quantifiable reason.

Thus, blaming greedy borrowers has little or no logical foundation. Sure there are billions who desire something for nothing, but why should they have been able to get that loan unless the lenders had motivations that transcended reality?

[Atrocities]

Hum. "My plan is to spread the wealth around." - Obama
Obama's Own Comments

"“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too.” - Obama

socialism
so·cial·ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

[Atrocities]

The Democrats are now saying that they are working with the Obama camp to call a lame duck session in order to pass a new stimulus package. They are attempting to buy the election. If you re-elect us, we will give you money,.

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy...

~Alexander Fraser Tytler

Voter fraud directly tied back to Obama, and now this, buying votes. Its bad enough that the main stream media is in the Obama camp, now we have Congress working with Obama to try and buy our votes, along with stealing them. What a shameful betrayal of democracy.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

...

Hahaha, oh wow!

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by Atrocities

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly.

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

(Answer keeping in mind the almost 1 trillion dollars hole in your economy done by the people who were capitalizing your money, and will be dismissed by their societies with just a few million dollars for consolation, while you pay for their crazy investments, please)

[Atrocities]

Originally Posted by Tifone

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

(Answer keeping in mind the almost 1 trillion dollars hole in your economy done by the people who were capitalizing your money, and will be dismissed by their societies with just a few million dollars for consolation, while you pay for their crazy investments, please)

You're right, there is no excuse for this bail out. It is the worst thing our elected officials have ever done. We were lied to again. Everyone in office now who voted for this bail out bill needs to be fired.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Tifone

...And this is a very, very, oh so wicked belief, because... ?

Because it removes most of the incentive to create more wealth to distribute "evenly". Because the people who decide how to distribute the wealth invariably siphon off a larger "equal" share than the people who don't make the decisions.

A soon as you have even one person who isn't satisfied with the "equal" share the government decides is "fair", socialism starts to fail. Socialism fails because it ignores basic human nature.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by capnq

Because it removes most of the incentive to create more wealth to distribute "evenly". Because the people who decide how to distribute the wealth invariably siphon off a larger "equal" share than the people who don't make the decisions.

You are talking about a total different matter than mine. This is the corruption of this system (expecially you're thinking about URSS I suppose) and I was talking about the belief at the base of the system.

Originally Posted by capnq

A soon as you have even one person who isn't satisfied with the "equal" share the government decides is "fair", socialism starts to fail. Socialism fails because it ignores basic human nature.

If 2000 years ago I would have said you "hey, you know what I think it's wrong? That the men has an upper hand on the women in social roles! I mean, we're equal! And is wrong that we kill/crucify/lapidate/incinerate people because of their different religion/race/sexual orientation!" you would have said that I was ignoring the basic human nature of supremacy of the strong male on the weak female and the holiness of the rules that were used to bind us to kill people. Now you say they were against it (I hope). Think if in 1000 years people will think it was fair that in this time, 1/4 of humanity were eating up to explode, and 3/4 of were starving to death, because our "human nature" is against an equal distribution, capnq.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Tifone

If 2000 years ago I would have said you "hey, you know what I think it's wrong? That the men has an upper hand on the women in social roles! I mean, we're equal! And is wrong that we kill/crucify/lapidate/incinerate people because of their different religion/race/sexual orientation!" you would have said that I was ignoring the basic human nature of supremacy of the strong male on the weak female and the holiness of the rules that were used to bind us to kill people. Now you say they were against it (I hope). Think if in 1000 years people will think it was fair that in this time, 1/4 of humanity were eating up to explode, and 3/4 of were starving to death, because our "human nature" is against an equal distribution, capnq.

No, I am not saying they were against it then. But I don't believe historical societies should be judged solely by modern standards.

In 1000 years, I expect historians will consider our era the beginning of the Second Dark Ages.