MBT's - Page 174

Suhiir · #**1731** January 13th, 2024, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

The pen calculator confirms that in the game it is possible to take out a T-90 with the Chain Gun on the Bradley from the side and the rear....... no certainty but possible

After the Khafji battle during Desert Shield/Storm I spoke to a LAV-25 gunner who'd run into some T-62s out west of the city (in the middle of nowhere) and he told me that tho the 25mm couldn't penetrate the turret armor it was knocking chips out of it and he felt that given enough time/ammo it could have chiseled a hole through.

NOT RELEVANT to WinSPMBT but I found it interesting.

DRG · #**1732** January 13th, 2024, 11:33 PM

Yeah well...... if you are watching your hits take chunks out of the armour ya gotta think that eventually, you'll get all the way through

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1733** January 14th, 2024, 04:20 AM

Well, I realize what I forgot to add on my last post; my brain was telling me what to write but my fingers were ahead of the thought.

The "lesson" I was trying to put across was the importance of mobility while attacking a target bigger than you in a combat situation which the video clearly shows.

Move, Shoot, Reposition and REPEAT.

The video clearly shows the Bradley(s) was firing DU rounds (Yes, I posted they would get them. They received them last fall.) where they hit the ground and the T-90M.
https://orau.org/health-physics-muse...ting%20Vehicle.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...-rounds-2023-6

From Ref 1 (Ref 2 discusses this as well.) Para. 2: "Unlike tungsten, uranium is pyrophoric."

And the video also shows smoke coming out from the T-90M main gun and not from firing it as it runs into the trees.

And it doesn't look as though the crew made it out as well since the Ukrainians like to show the Russians "scurrying about" out of armored vehicles etc. when attacked.

Upon review of the video again it looks like two crewmen got out on the right side of the tank. Those "white lights" on the left side of the frontal arc of the turret is definitely the signature of DU rounds and not a Tungsten round.

I was surprised to read from my Marine Buddy that the LAV-25 didn't use the DU rounds in combat in Iraq as "JAKE" showed me pictures from his crew of him loading the dual feed ammo belts.

HOWEVER, AS I FOUND THAT STRANGE, I FOUND THE FOLLOWING...

The LAV-25 used the following against heavier armor as taken from Page 1-3 of the below referenced.

"M919 Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized
Discarding Sabot With Tracer (APFSDS-T)."

It has a DU Penetrator. DATED: 19 December 1997/SIGNED BY: J. E. RHODES
Lieutenant General, U.S. Marine Corps Commanding General
Marine Corps Combat Development Command
https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...mcwp3-14-1.pdf

Based on your earlier post and comment, might this change something now for you?

A T-62 is no T-90 and you saw what the DU rounds did to it. DU rounds would "SHRED" a T-62 in a heartbeat.

Regards,
Pat

DRG · #**1734** January 14th, 2024, 03:54 PM

Do you think the lasted 120mm DU will be sent or older stock ? My guess would be the previous ammo with the latest keep in the USA

EDIT. I have now given the M1A1 Abrams UKR the 120mm M256 03 gun/ammo rather than the generic 120mm L44

DRG · #**1735** January 14th, 2024, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Well, I realize what I forgot to add on my last post; my brain was telling me what to write but my fingers were ahead of the thought.

The "lesson" I was trying to put across was the importance of mobility while attacking a target bigger than you in a combat situation which the video clearly shows.

Move, Shoot, Reposition and REPEAT.

The Brads give the Ukrainians something they never had before.....the ability to hit a moving target while moving themselves better than they used to be able to do stationary.

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1736** January 14th, 2024, 06:52 PM

Did my last affect or have any bearing on the AP round the USMC has currently for the LAV-25 in the game?

Supposed to be the the same round the BRADLEY uses.

Just curious.

Also, I believe that is a good choice of DU 120mm for the Ukrainian
M1A1.

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir · #**1737** January 14th, 2024, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I was surprised to read from my Marine Buddy that the LAV-25 didn't use the DU rounds in combat in Iraq as "JAKE" showed me pictures from his crew of him loading the dual feed ammo belts.

Regards,
Pat

I didn't ask what type of ammo he used but I know DU available so I assumed it was that. I can't imagine HE doing anything at all to tank level armor, and I'm not sure regular D/S would have knocked chips out of the armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Did my last affect or have any bearing on the AP round the USMC has currently for the LAV-25 in the game?

Supposed to be the the same round the BRADLEY uses.

Just curious.

Also, I believe that is a good choice of DU 120mm for the Ukrainian
M1A1.

Regards,
Pat

Nope.
I copied the stats from the US Army OOB so if there's to be a change that's up to DRG.

Suhiir · #**1738** January 14th, 2024, 09:09 PM

Take this for what it's worth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg64H8jwheQ
(( Not specifically "tank" but lots of info on the T-90. ))
(( Of particular note the T-90 CANNOT use the new APFSDS round designed for the T-14 as it will not fit in the autoloader. ))

I know Don "loves" to tweak units

FASTBOAT TOUGH · #**1739** January 15th, 2024, 02:16 AM

Yeah, I got you.

Got my curiosity up as General Dynamics makes the same ammo for the BRADLEY.

Just wanted to enquire if your (CORPS) LAV-25 was using the same ammo as the BRADLEY is all.

As to the T-14 is about DOA (They can't afford nor because of the embargo get the computer chips for its advanced electronics besides being unreliable.

However, that being said there is a PROTOTYPE T-90M(E?) (Not the "Proryv 3"" I've "seen" that apparently have the T-14 gun or modify the existing gun to fire those rounds which would require a modification of the FCS at a minimum.

I'm watching this however, I have "LOW CONFIDENCE" in the source. You can draw tour conclusions of this last. They say below the gun and ammo are on the T-90M Proryv 3 (Or the T-90M 2017 as it's also confusedly called.).
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tec...ssias-%D1%8290

Just because I haven't been posting for a while doesn't mean I'm not paying attention.

Regards,
Pat

Suhiir · #**1740** January 15th, 2024, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Yeah, I got you.
Just wanted to enquire if your (CORPS) LAV-25 was using the same ammo as the BRADLEY is all.

Pat

As far as I know if the USMC uses the same weapons, or weapons caliber as the US Army they use the same ammo. Tho there may be some "high tech" (i.e. the 155mm Excalibur) ammo types the USMC has a limited stock of, or only requisitions for a specific need/requirement.

Same with missiles, bombs, and all the rest.

There aren't very many "unique" weapon systems in the US Military. And those mostly belong to the SF types.