Battlefield spell + retreating? - Page 16

chrispedersen · #**151** July 15th, 2008, 02:34 PM

Well, I've been on the boards awhile. I'd like to be able to play some games where MoD is allowed. Just as I'm ok with games where it isn't.

There are a lot of easy counters to MoD. Where MoD is devestating is where you have a huge army decimated by it.
That situation occurs when:

You fight a race which has proficiency in air, and neglected to plan how to address it.

You stuck all your eggs in one basket - and allowed it to become a one fight issue.

You didn't develop assassins to target the retreating mage.

You didn't raid his army, causing him to blow air gems on inconsequential fights.

You didn't develop a SC or army capable of dealing with the issue - so instead of merely retreating, you were eliminated by a heat from hell, etc.

You neglected to raid, or strategically ally to cause others to gang up on the (readily) MoD capable opponent.

This doesn't mean I don't find MoD to be strong, even unreasonably strong. It also doesn't mean that I don't think it goes beyond what the developers intended. It might even be a bug. But the real issue is that defeating MoD is subtle and difficult - and doesn't suit the style of many players.

If SC's - and large armies are readily trashed by MoD's - then winning strategies will necessarily less involve SC's and large armies.

The game becomes a game of air gem (and air mage) management. Defense in depth, instead of set piece battles. How to get (interrupt) air gems to the front.

In short, I don't think its ruins the game - it just changes the nature of it, in a way thats currently unpopular.

MaxWilson · #**152** July 15th, 2008, 02:34 PM

DonCorazon,

Be sure you don't confuse board vets with game vets. I'm a "Lieutenant Colonel" or some such nonsense on the boards but have less game experience than many "Sergeants." Instead of military ranks I wish they's just rate us "Talkative," "Gabby," "Garrulous," etc.

I understand that many of the "real" vets from the IRC channels and such don't even post on these boards. Of course I don't remember specifically which board vets you cited so perhaps these comments don't apply.

-Max

triqui · #**153** July 15th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

You didn't develop a SC or army capable of dealing with the issue - so instead of merely retreating, you were eliminated by a heat from hell, etc.

Unless i'm utterly wrong, that is not true. If i cloud trapeze onto your army/SC, cast the MoD and retreat, you will die regardless of anything. Your SC might as well be "inmune to heat, shock and frost". Or "inmune to death" and still would die. Becouse after 50 turns the attacker (that is, me) would retreat. As i dont have units, just the endless phantasmal warriors, fight would keep until turn 75, at which point everyone is destroyed.

Is not that the case?

DonCorazon · #**154** July 15th, 2008, 03:05 PM

Good luck stopping my Air Queen with Armor of Virtue. Perhaps if you planned from day 1 just to kill me, then you'd be safe. Assassins just give me more experience, retreat paths are irrelevant with the ritual of returning, and at this stage in the game air gems are abundant. And I am playing LA TC - not known as an air nation. You better have casters with Rain of Stones ready to go everywhere b/c my armored telpeporting celestial masters with ritual of returning will be popping in wherever they see a troop buildup. And rain of stones will likely do a lot more damage to you than it will to my single kamikazee casters.

Anyway, it is personal preference and to each his own.

Tifone · #**155** July 15th, 2008, 03:14 PM

not to be imposing, but would someone like to answer my question too?

Endoperez · #**156** July 15th, 2008, 03:30 PM

Yes, the mod fixes everything.

Donny · #**157** July 15th, 2008, 04:03 PM

Sorry, chris, I totally disagree with your points.

Mod-retreating is a godmode. It might take some time to type in something like 'whosyourdaddy', and the others might be successful disurbing the typing process, but once it takes effort no one and nothing can beat it. I'd say, allowing anything like godmode in MP might be fun, but tragic.

thejeff · #**158** July 15th, 2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

triqui said:

Unless i'm utterly wrong, that is not true. If i cloud trapeze onto your army/SC, cast the MoD and retreat, you will die regardless of anything. Your SC might as well be "inmune to heat, shock and frost". Or "inmune to death" and still would die. Becouse after 50 turns the attacker (that is, me) would retreat. As i dont have units, just the endless phantasmal warriors, fight would keep until turn 75, at which point everyone is destroyed.

Is not that the case?

No, at turn 75 the defender would retreat. Only those who cannot/will not retreat are destroyed.

Mindless, berserk, unconscious, immobile, etc units will be destroyed, but most will just retreat.

Tifone · #**159** July 15th, 2008, 05:20 PM

tnx Endoperenz ^_^

JimMorrison · #**160** July 16th, 2008, 07:31 PM

Tifone - by making the spell last only 9 turns, it is just one of the many spells that can be quickly cast to do some damage by a retreating caster. In fact, there are others that would work better. By putting a time limit on it, the 75 turn limit is never reached, and the other force is not automatically dissolved by game mechanics.

Chris - there is really no way around the concept that this is a glaring bug. Casting a BE and then leaving wouldn't be nearly as big a deal, because the battle would end. However, it was never intended that the constant autosummoned units from MoD would keep the fight going indefinitely. ie- you can NEVER make them stop coming, so you cannot win the fight. All Mindless units are forfeit, and if this tactic is used defensively, I'm pretty sure that defender keeps their units even if they're forced to route, but the attacker loses ALL units remaining on the field. Now you don't even have to kill them in the defensive use, you're just trapping them there to die uselessly.