AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

Xiati

Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,

Thanks for answering my questions, I understand your points I guess I have to play with your mod a little more.

Anyway, off the top of my head with the Xiati, I would look into the politics.txt file. The anger and the settings file is to generic. Now based on the score percentage, if the Xiati have a high enough score percent in relation to a particular race or group of races that fall below or equal to that score percentage then they would be aggressive.

Score Percent to Send Want a tribute := 100/200
Will Send To Friend Want a tribute := True
Will Send To Enemy Want a tribute := True

Score Percent to Send Want a tribute := 100/200

I am not sure were you got the 100/200 from?
200 would yield a Demand when your race is way behind score strength by double

What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 90
AIC Xiati set at = 50

With the current AIC setting at 50 the Xiati will demand a tribute when he is 50 % ahead of his target Races score as opposed to default which would only be a 10% lead, virtually almost equal strength in base se4.
I would laugh at a race that was tied asking me for tribute that�s why I bumped it up to 50.

With the currant Xiati AIC setting at 50, he will make demands less and when he does he will have some strength to back it up
~

Will Send To Friend Want a tribute := True
Will Send To Enemy Want a tribute := True

Few races in AIC asks a Friend for Tribute, and the Xiati is one of them, in this way being the scum I want them to be.
~~

Score Percent to Send Demand your surrender := 800/900 (You have this right now at 15)?

Will Send To Friend Demand your surrender := True
Will Send To Enemy Demand your surrender := True

Again I am not sure where you are getting 800/900

At 800 would yield a Demand when your race is way/wayer behind score strength by 4 to 5 times in other words Your Race will be the one needing to Surrender not demanding it.

What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 15

This is a real good question SunDevil do to such a variance from default of 65.

At se4 default of 80 the race would demand a surrender when he only has a 20 % percent strength score lead this again is virtually tie and the target AI would constantly refuse any way.

With Currant AIC setting of 15 the Xiati will demand surrender when he is about 200% score strength to that of his target race�

Again the AI will make less demands and has some authority when he makes demands.
~
Will Send To Friend Demand your surrender := True
Will Send To Enemy Demand your surrender := True
Only the greedy races in AIC will send To Friend Demand your surrender, and the Xiati is one of them, in this way being the concealed scum I want them to be
~

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 200/300
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True

What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 70

As you can see we are close here I bumped up 10 to lessen the demands only.

However if you notice some of the Xenophobe Race files in AIC:

Sergetti for example:
Demeanor := Aggressive
Culture := Xenophobes

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 110

He will send Remove your ships even when he is trailing by 10% and they MEAN it as well
Anger:
Per No Treaty Ship := 2
If you are in his territory with out a treaty you have only a few turns to GET out if:
1: His strength is �150 to 150 to that of yours.
2: He doesn�t much care if he already has a war or 2 (25) but will react a little slower if this is the case.
3: By mid game (turn 250-500) he may even take less crap from a non aligned race.
4: Even in the opening game (turn 1-51) he will cut you some slack, but not as much as others.

Declare War Anger Modifier Per Other Wars := 25
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player := 150
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player Amount := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player Amount := -30

Same applies to a lesser degree with the Amonkrie But being Honorable he responds even when he is trailing -250% but he will cut some slack to you just the same; but don�t try to take advantage of the Amonkrie generosity until you have an agreement.

Now the Zynarra they relly don�t want anybody to STAY in there System, they won�t even let a friend refuel so don�t run out of gas . They will let a friend pass thru, but that�s about it. If you want to remain friends don't remain in his system with a fleet.

Well, enough of the Xenos, back to Xiati.
~
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True

I have this set at true for the Xiati because I am still trying to to get them more triggers to back stab an ally so they can be the scum I want them to be.

~

Score Percent to Send Remove your colonies from system := 600/700
Will Send To Friend Remove your colonies from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your colonies from system := True

Score Percent to Send Leave planet := 500/600
Will Send To Friend Leave planet := True
Will Send To Enemy Leave planet := True

What is actual colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Same Principles Applies as stated above.
Less AI demands and when the Xiati does demand he will have some influence.
~

Now based on the score percent, regardless if the weak race if friend or foe the Xiati will not be nice. If the other races are closer in score to the Xiati then the they will not be bothered with these demands. Like I said, this is just off the top of my head and I hope this helps.

Based on your numbers that you posted you have the Xiati Demanding Surrender when he trailing 5 to one? You did not get these numbers from AIC or the Original Space Empires Race Files.

I can�t take this any further, because I am not sure where your Numbers are coming from or your intended direction.

With the numbers I explained above, I hope will shed some light on the Xiati Political file and do accomplish what I perceive a Schemer should be, what do you think?

My next post will explain more of what I want to do with the Xiati and the item entries that make the difference, but I still need that elusive entry that makes them a more consistent back stabber, with out getting them in to much trouble as an AI.
Then when it comes to testing (ekk) it takes forever to create environments to set things in play, this is where feedback is so helpful.

John

[ April 29, 2003, 19:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I go the numbers backwards.

Remove Ships from System := ?

(You described this race that only focuses on weak races. If you do set this to 100, if you look farther down this file, you will see you have set for the Xiati to leave systems on 200 and planet at 200 both at true. So if the Xiati will leave a system or planet at 200 but will tell any race to get out of their system at 100, it just seems a little close to me.)

Demand Surrender := 15 Good Choice
Leave System : 40/30 Serious Request
Leave Planet : 40/50/60

-------------------------------------------------
What is actual colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Because there might be multiple planets within a system you might want to have a lower score than leave planet because telling a race to leave a whole system is a huge demand compared to leaving only one planet.
I also noticed that you have this set in the accept part of the politics file as well. Where a race will accept the demand remove their colonies from a system when the score is 200 more than the target race, but to remove from a planet it is set to 400.
--------------------------------------------------

SunDevil

[JLS]

I was just about to edit when my server hickuped.

Please add this EDIT:

On other Mods I/we/they may set all Surrender Values very high and this is for good reason and for that particular design. This may be were you are getting some of the numbers.

I have to return to work.... Darn, I am enjoyng this exchange, I will be back as soon as I can.

[ April 30, 2003, 12:49: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Xiati

Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,

I go the numbers backwards.

Remove Ships from System := ?

(You described this race that only focuses on weak races. If you do set this to 100, if you look farther down this file, you will see you have set for the Xiati to leave systems on 200 and planet at 200 both at true. So if the Xiati will leave a system or planet at 200 but will tell any race to get out of their system at 100, it just seems a little close to me.)

Posted Send Remove your ships from system
What is actual :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 70 (not 100?)

Exerpt from AIC, as you can see they are staggered?
Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 70
Will Send To Friend Remove your ships from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your ships from system := True
Score Percent to Send Remove your colonies from system := 60
Will Send To Friend Remove your colonies from system := True
Will Send To Enemy Remove your colonies from system := True
Score Percent to Send Leave planet := 50
Will Send To Friend Leave planet := True
Will Send To Enemy Leave planet := True

Actual To Accept Remove your ships from system:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

Actual To Accept Remove your colonies from system:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

Actual To Accept Leave planet:
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 150
AIC Xiati set at = 200

OK, have a display,

The AIC Xiti {may} ask another race to remove his ships from a system if he is 130% to that of the targets score.

The AIC Xiati {may} accept the obligations to remove ships from a system if the Sending AI is 200% stronger then the Xiati.

Just so this is clear = "but will tell any race to get out of their system"
The system that is referenced by the AI is usually a contested system and actually the sending AI feels as strongly that the TARGETS system is his; whether it is the targets Home System or not
The AI rarely fulfills if ever the acceptance obligations that implicates its Home System in reference to the Items above. Actually, the AI usually drags his butt or has an excuse on acceptance obligations outside his Home System as well in reference to the above items.

~

Demand Surrender := 15 Good Choice
Leave System : 40/30 Serious Request
Leave Planet : 40/50/60

Thanks.

"40/50/60" Their you go, these are absolutely good settings
From time to time we can randomly interchange to keep the Players on there toes.

~

What is actual sends colonies :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 60

What is actual sends planet :
Se4 1.84 Default set at = 80
AIC Xiati set at = 50

Because there might be multiple planets within a system you might want to have a lower score than leave planet because telling a race to leave a whole system is a huge demand compared to leaving only one planet. I also noticed that you have this set in the accept part of the politics file as well. Where a race will accept the demand remove their colonies from a system when the score is 200 more than the target race, but to remove from a planet it is set to 400.

Thanks I see your Point, I will stay with the acual sends but in regards to accepts I will retest cranking colonies to 300-400

Good Job, Sundevil

John

[ April 30, 2003, 02:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Sundevil,

No matter how you cut it, the Xiati can not be trusted, and that is where they are at now.

If not broken , best not to fix it

EDIT:
I gave 300-400 a go,but 300 does works better for the Xiati, Thanks, Sundevil.

[ May 03, 2003, 12:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Thanks, for the cheer

How it is done; is by manipulating the AI files that Aaron Hall who created Malfador Machinations Space Empires; intended for moders.

TDM (mod pack) has an awesome AI and they accomplished this with in the constraints of base Space Empires routines, and is a fine example on how this is done and by listening and referring to there knowledge, I was able to program something reasonable, to complement AIC.

Thanks. Xeno�s and most other races play the diplomatic game well, when it comes to the Psychos; Well there is not much creativity there, but everything evolves.

When it come to feed back: When you see something out of AI character that the AI did, send me an E-Mail or just post.

Again, thanks QBrigid

[ May 01, 2003, 13:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Xiati

Originally posted by SunDevil:

JLS,
(You described this race that only focuses on weak races.

Sundevil, good question. Sorry I missed this portion from your Post.

What I like to see is the Xiati some time after 50 turns, BREAK ONE treaty on the weakest race (about 150% weaker). I do expect more times then not, this to be the Human Player

Now lets say you have a military Agreement with the Xiati , and he is over one of your resupply colonies possibly even over your Home World with a fair size fleet.
I want the Human Player to get real Paranoid if he/she is trailing; even Slightly (or ahead on some intentional random AI releases) and start building defenses even you the Human Player to consider a preemptive strike against him

I don�t want the Xiati to declare wars, I just want them to double deal.

You will notice more time then not, they will pull this off. Even against other AI's.

[ May 01, 2003, 17:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:

JLS,

However if you notice some of the Xenophobe Race files in AIC:

Sergetti for example:
Demeanor := Aggressive
Culture := Xenophobes

Score Percent to Send Remove your ships from system := 110

He will send Remove your ships even when he is trailing by 10% and they MEAN it as well
Anger:
Per No Treaty Ship := 2
If you are in his territory with out a treaty you have only a few turns to GET out if:
1: His strength is �150 to 150 to that of yours.
2: He doesn�t much care if he already has a war or 2 (25) but will react a little slower if this is the case.
3: By mid game (turn 250-500) he may even take less crap from a non aligned race.
4: Even in the opening game (turn 1-51) he will cut you some slack, but not as much as others.

Declare War Anger Modifier Per Other Wars := 25
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player := 150
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player Amount := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player := 50
Declare War Anger Modifier For Percent Weaker Player Amount := -30

Same applies to a lesser degree with the Amonkrie But being Honorable he responds even when he is trailing -250% but he will cut some slack to you just the same; but don�t try to take advantage of the Amonkrie generosity until you have an agreement.

Now the Zynarra they relly don�t want anybody to STAY in there System, they won�t even let a friend refuel so don�t run out of gas . They will let a friend pass thru, but that�s about it. If you want to remain friends don't remain in his system with a fleet.

Then when it comes to testing (ekk) it takes forever to create environments to set things in play, this is where feedback is so helpful.

John

I don�t how you do it but the way the AI reacts in AI Campaign it is almost like they are Human.
What kind of feed back would you like to see in regards to AI diplomacy.
I don�t recall my encounters with the Xiati but the Xenophobic races do act like natural Xenophobes.
The Phong is also very Honorable, they do not break their treaty even when they are angry with you.
Very sweet mod. Keep happy and keep up the good work

[ May 01, 2003, 12:25: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Thanks for the feedback, I am currently trying to put together about six of the top mods together into one for my personal use. I plan on playing around with your mod, but I must say you did your homework when putting this mod together. In a couple of days I will probably be finished and I will get a chance to actually play a game. Once I do, I am sure I will have more questions for you. Thanks again for your feedback and thanks again for your hard work in putting this mod together.

[JLS]

Sounds ambitious and it would be an honor if AIC is one of your top six.
If you need anything, be sure to ask.

Thanks again, Sundevil. I very much, enjoyed our exchange

John

[ May 02, 2003, 10:13: Message edited by: JLS ]