Jotunheim:Utgard AAR

[Pillin]

Hmm.. conjuration, but forget the vine ogres. too little for the mage time.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Pillin:
Hmm.. conjuration, but forget the vine ogres. too little for the mage time.

Really? With 2 mages and 2 crowns I have the gem income to pop out 4 ogres (which don't eat) per turn, and only lose 1/6 of my (current) RPs for the effort, even less of a hit as I get more Seithkonas. The vine critters are pretty tough. Still not worthwhile you think?

[Pillin]

Personally I dont feel they are worth the time, your mage could be put to better use than summoning those. If you like em thats up to you tho

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Pillin:
Personally I dont feel they are worth the time, your mage could be put to better use than summoning those.

I'm truly not trying to argue. What I'd like to understand, as it will help me I think, is to know *why* you don't feel they are worth the time. The main drawback that I can see is that it slows down my research by a bit. The extra speed of research is better than a few, no-food, tough cannon-fodder per turn? Or is there something else I'm missing? (there are so many subtleties to Dom)

[Pillin]

Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.

PS. Im still a newbie too, so this might not be correct.

[licker]

Originally posted by Pillin:
Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.

PS. Im still a newbie too, so this might not be correct.

This is definately one of those gray areas, in the realm of 'it depends'.

Certainly there are times when you have better things for your mages to do, but there are also times when having a few dozen vine ogres will be really useful. I doubt that many people base a game strategy solely around the creation of vine people (does anyone ever use the Master Druid?), but it can fill in the gaps where you need this kind of fodder, and you have the time and gems to spare on it.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Pillin:
Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.

They do need N3 to summon. That's my N2 Norna with a Thistle Mace (plus the Ivy Crown to get the extra Ogre). Or any of my Seithkonas with the Mace and another (expensive) item I'll need Construction-6 to get. I plan to get the Norna to N5, eventually, for GoH, so making a Thistle Mace is a necessary step towards that anyway. Taking one of my 3 Norns out of RP isn't so bad, given my constant addition of new Seithkonas each turn.

I almost never send mages out site-searching. That's what I use Acashic for. And I think that I have enough mages to both support my research and my one army. At least for now. The mages supporting troops would be much more important if I had decent offensive spells.

The biggest hit I take is the loss of half my meager N gem income.

Thoughts?

I need massive amounts of N gems to be able to make items and empower to get to the 5N (from 2N) I'll need for GoH. So Enchantment, for now, isn't a real good choice of study I think.

There are many nice L6 construction items I'd like to have, but my gem income is a tad weak to support the amount of items I'd like to make.

That pretty well narrows the field between Conjuration and Evocation ...

[Norfleet]

I'd go with Conjuration. As you yourself noted, your gem income remains presently anemic....this isn't going to improve much unless you start doing some more band-scanning for sites. At the rather poor mage-time ratios for vinecreature summonings, plus that it'll likely take you a turn or two to even get set up, then move all your newly summoned creatures to the front, it'll be at least a dozen turns or so before they start showing up in useful quantities. Better to work on getting the gem machine rolling, which will greatly expand your future options.

[Arryn]

Turn #13, Spring of Year 2
Woodland surprise.

This month there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands.

While digging in a ravine in the Well of All Waters for more water gems, the prospectors find a single earth gem.

My force at Pythium, in this sixth month of the siege, breach the walls of the citadel!

In the Feral Woods, my avatar confronts a druid, nine Vine Men, and three Vine Ogres. Jorgun begins in the very rear, as has been his tactic for the past few months. Defensive spell scripting is: Personal Luck, Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Resist Magic, and Astral Weapon. Followed by 'attack closest'. The wyrm, an unrepentant carnivore and detesting such vegetarian fare, nonetheless eats all of the vine creatures, taking numerous hits (36 HPs worth) while dining, despite his tough physical and magical defenses. The druid, after casting a pair of defensive spells, fruitlessly attempts to put my avatar to sleep no less than five times. Stupidly stubborn, or just not very creative of him. After all his leafy creatures are no more, he flees the field, and goes into deep hiding in the woods, never to be seen again.

Jorgun adds 12 kills and 17 trophies to his tally! He discovers a laboratory in the Feral Woods that was built by Pythium. This is very fortunate for me, as I will be able to equip my avatar for the coming castle-storming with a few magical items, built using my mages' recently-gained construction skills, without the delay entailed in ferrying items from Jotunheim. It will also permit me to use my avatar for magical research as the items are built by other mages.

Tahmar arrives in Pythium with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen, while Bdvar reports from Helmshire the presence of some two-score fanatics (aka: modded militia), archers, and heavy footmen.

The number of dissenters declines by one in the Iron Range, Gwyrth and Eribon, and by two in Bel and the Well of All Waters.

The Skratti Tunne joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the third rank of 'Construction' magics, and report that they expect to achieve the much-desired fourth rank by next month. As this, fourth, level will be sufficient for my needs at present, I instruct that they should commence studies into 'Conjuration' magics immediately.
This Skratti has 2W, 1N, and 2B. I was hoping for 3W, but 1N is very nice.

My realm has:

• __8 Provinces (+Pythium under seige)
• 291 Treasury.
• 472 Income. (+33)
• 178 Upkeep. (+17)
• 126 Resources in the capital. (+1)
• _82 RPs

Gem income is:

• +3 Water (06)
• +0 Earth (01)
• +3 Astral (39)
• +1 Death (05)
• +2 Nature (21)

I recruit a Seithkona to join my coven, as well as a Jotun spearman and four Jotun huskarls (w/spear). I increase the provincial defense of the Iron Range to ten Jotun militias (+3 increase), and raise one provincial defender in the Feral Woods. These preparations drain the treasury of 288 coins.

My prophet Grymis has made no further progress proselytizing to the inhabitants of the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium this month, but continues his preaching as there remain a stubborn core of adherents to the snake faith. Tahmar, handing over his longdead troops to Urd, and the living ones to Bove, heads back to the Alps. Ualgo and his five Jotun bodyguards march from the Alps to join the camp at Pythium. From Helmshire, Bdvar next heads east into the plains of Tesifon (#58). My avatar remains in the lab within the Feral Woods, conducting magical research, and spreading his influence (dominion) into the area. The Seithkona Sigyn commences construction of a Horror Helm (for Jorgun), and all 5 of the death gems in the treasury are set aside for this task.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.

[licker]

Why not Hauspeux then? I don't see Acashac Record as really being worth its cost other than for a few provinces that you havn't gotten to. I'd suggest taking one (or more) N2 mages and hauspexing your provinces if you don't want to take one out on tour (need N3 for best results if you search by hand).