OT: Alien Contact

[dogscoff]

CNC: You're wrong=-)

1. We already produce more food than the population of the Earth can eat. All the famine and starvation in the world comes down to economics and logistics, not underproduction.

2. The Earth is nowhere near full yet. There are massive tracts of land as yet unused for farming and living space. By the time that runs out, we will have the technology to exploit the ocean floors, which will effectively treble the amount of surface available to us.

3. If the Earth does become overcrowded, some kind of catastrophic event (war, environmental disaster) will reduce the human population, but it won't wipe us out. We are too good at adapting ourselves and our environment to our own needs to be extinguished that easily. I think we could even (just about) survive a meteor hit and subsequent nuclear winter. Also, our current society is now a global phenomenon- unless you destroyed every country in the world it would be a shorter climb back up to our current state than it was from the dark ages back up to the level of civilisation that preceded them.

4. We WILL make it up into space. It will probably centuries or even millenia before we leave this solar system, but I firmly believe we will. In the meantime, The moon, Mars, the asteroid belt and some of the Jovian satellites will all be mined and/ or colonised. Once we achieve self-sufficiency away from mother earth, the human race will be truly unstoppable.

[Aloofi]

This thread is awesome!

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
2. The Earth is nowhere near full yet.

This is a matter of opinion. In mine, we already have more than twice as many people as there should be.

[Aloofi]

I've been thinking about the Alien thing, and I have reached the conclusion that if an Alien civilization have the capability of coming all the way to here, it have to be an agressive civilization, because "thirst for scientific knowledge" is not enough to fund the cost of R&D of space exploration tech. They have to have a major motive pushing them to the stars.

Now, they also need to have a very advance industrial infrastructure, and what's the most advance/powerful/capable economical organization?
Yes, the evil corporations.
This one scenario of first contact:

An scout vessel from Race X comes to our beloved solar system. It chart the system, run their planetary mineral scanners, and deploy a couple guiding beacons.
Back on Planet X, MegaCorporation Z buys the mining rights for our solar system, and ask for a loan from the Galactic Bank to initiate mining operations. Mega Z starts minig first the rich mineral deposits in Mars, but they soon discover that our planet is even richer , and they start to plan a mining colony over here. But, of course, the native population of Earth is going to be problem, so they send a drone to drop us a Virus Bomb V. After that they land a couple of Corporate Marines to claim the planet and make sure that we were wiped out, then they collect all the minerals found in our cities, especially the gold from Fort Knox, and finally they start building a mining complex to mine our planet's core, financed by the Galactic Bank.

[Wardad]

Aloofi,
Why would they go to all that trouble?
They could get us to enslave each other, and then we could mine it for them.
Of couse this approach requires some finesse and control of local resources.

At one time in Europe pepper corns were more precious than gold. You could become very rich and powerfull by trading it.

In modern times, copyrights and patents are the real bonanza. They just have to stay ahead of the curve and slow down the competition.
Take Microsoft for example, PLEASE!!!

[Fyron]

It is a Scientific book written many many years ago. If it was written today it would resemble the current way we figure out life which is Mathmatics.

No, it is not a scientific book. It is a philosophical book. To be a scientific book, it would have to start out with basic observed facts, and use them to prove something. It does not do that, it just says, "here is the conclusion, and it is true". Actually, it would have to do pretty much the same thing to be a philosophical book, so it is not one of those. It is a religious book, period.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by Wardad:
Aloofi,
Why would they go to all that trouble?
They could get us to enslave each other, and then we could mine it for them.
Of couse this approach requires some finesse and control of local resources.

Nah, they don't have use for us as slaves because we can't possible undestand their tech (If they can warp....) and it will be more reliable to use droids to mine.
Also, their goverment might have laws prohibiting the training of primitive native in their technology.
Advanced industrial tech beats the hell out of slave workforce. Slaves by default have not interest in producing, or in quality. Plus slaves cost money to maintain, otherwise they die out rather quickly.
There is a reason why slavery was abolished in our culture, and believe me, it have nothing to do with human rights.

[Aloofi]

Hey, I found a better Mandy....

[Andr�s]

Well the Bible is a mixture of myths, history, philosophy, how the world/universe was though to work, and moral advice.
Yes it was written by men, but it is pointless to discuss if those men were directly guided by God.
Most believers understand that although most truths in the Bible are timeless and as a whole it is still valid today, it was written for the situation and understanding of people of those times.
Taking literally and believing any religious scriptures blindly without thinking makes you a fanatic.
And it's pointless to discuss with a fanatic.

IIRC overpopulation was going to be a problem before long year 2000, but nothing happened. Conflicts in the world today have little or nothing to do with that.
We're not stranded in a desert island with counted rations like CNC said.
We've been living in this island for many generations, self sustained by fruits growing in its trees, there are more efficient production methods yet to implement. Population growth is limited by the available resources and it's also a matter of time before someone builds a boat and tries to get to another island.

No I don't believe there are other humans out there, but how similar or different than humans other races will be? I really dislike the sci-fi idea that sentient races will invariably evolve into a human like shape.

I believe that there are millions of alien races out there.
But that they are so out of reach for us as we are out of reach for them.
A dark age and speed of development of every race are irrelevant. Human civilization is but an
instant in Earth lifetime, and other planets can be much older or younger than Earth.
It would be an unlikely coincidence if civilization is as developed as ours.
Among those millions of races that must exist out there, there must be many races that are millions of years ahead of us.

I agree with Dogscoff we will eventually make it up into space.

And those races that are more advanced than us must have probably made it up into space themselves.

And once space travel is a reliable everyday technology, a space-faring race will try to move beyond its star system.

A ship capable of a centuries long trip will not be profitable for a corporation or military expansion, no one would consider something so uncertain and long term a worthy investment.
It will be either a multi-generetion ship or a ship with all crew in animated suspension.
They will need to be independent from their mother culture, as distance grows not even communication will be possible and time passes the civilization that sent them may have fallen.
Will they feel like living in ships forever or will they seek suitable planet to settle?
If the planet they find an inhabited planet, will they:
1- leave them alone and do find another planet. Perhaps just stopping by to say hello, perhaps not letting the natives know they've been there.
2- exterminate or enslave the natives and colonize the planet
3- establish relations with natives, and settle in peace.
4- split their limited number and do two or all three of the things above.
Remember they will probably be outnumbered but count with higher technology.

[Atrocities]

A ship capable of a centuries long trip will not be profitable for a corporation or military expansion, no one would consider something so uncertain and long term a worthy investment.

I have to dissagree. Suvival is a worthy investment.