Time for a poll. (The subject is abuse)

[kasnavada]

It's not exactly abusive, just mindnumbingly annoying, since it's a tactic available for both sides.

That's an opinion. For me, anything that has for only "counter" to use more of the same strategy (basically this combo falls into this) is to be removed. The very fact that everyone can use it is irrelevant. I'm not striking for balance but for fun. Having 10 strategy is good, but one is just better than others (for whatever reasons) it's to be balanced, and even more so if anyone can use it, especially on a game like dominions that prides itself on having diversity for magic spells and units.

[Wauthan]

I'm not striking for balance but for fun.

Well you make a valid point, of course, and I agree that it's really wierd that combat doesn't end when one side retreats (or perhaps one turn afterwards). After all why would my army hang around a deserted battlefield chokefull of lethal magics? Have the devs responded on this topic yet? I've been on extended hiatus and am still cathing up on the last few years of posts.

[kasnavada]

why would my army hang around a deserted battlefield chokefull of lethal magics?

Hum, well, I always wondered the opposite on other games. Some units that would have died the next "battle turn" just live if you manage to kill the last ennemy (the most infamous case is about poison).

Somehow medics with perfect skill and infinite speed manage to save them all in time. I wonder why they don't use those medics with infinite speed and skill in battle, so the battle would be over before it started !

So, the battle not finishing until all magic stopped and units died make sense to me. But why they are still standing in poisonous clouds ? That also makes me wonder, they could at least move out of the way...

About dev answers : as far as I know : "you players should decide for each game whether it's right or not to use such a combo".

[Endoperez]

kasnavada said:
Hum, well, I always wondered the opposite on other games. Some units that would have died the next "battle turn" just live if you manage to kill the last ennemy (the most infamous case is about poison).

Didn't notice the boldened part, so Dominions mechanics obviously don't apply.

[MaxWilson]

*Post deleted by Max*

Sorry for the inadvertent bump. I posted before finishing the thread, and someone addressed my question already ("what's the problem with slave collars? why not just send them back to him?"--apparently the problem is that messages are received before forging occurs).

-Max

[K]

Sombre said:

I just don't get it. Is it that hard to understand that good balancing /increases/ variety? Ever heard of Rock Paper Scissors Mentok? It's like Rock Paper Scissors, but with the added variety of Mentok, which beats the other three and ties with itself. See where I'm going with this?

The thing I don't understand why everyone thinks that any of the above stated tactics are "Mentok." They aren't. Every one has a counter (usually several).

Sure, maybe you don't have that counter or aren't good enough at the game to keep it prepared, but isn't that the very essence of this game?

At it's essence, this game is about using tactics your opponent cannot or won't counter. Mere superiority in army size, income, or provinces can't win you this game unless you opponent is a noob.

[MaxWilson]

It's partly an Outside Context Problem. MoD, for example, has no counter that an attacker can employ within the context of a particular battle. That makes people tetchy if they want a game of tactical maneuvering instead of strategic second-guessing--the counter requires shifting contexts. It's Mentok for the specific battle in question.

-Max

[Omnirizon]

what is this mentok of which you speak?

[MaxWilson]

Earlier in the thread, a mention was made of Rock-Scissors-Paper-Mentok, which is just like Rock-Scissors-Paper except that Mentok beats anything and ties itself. The implication was that superdominant strategies reduce the complexity (and the fun) of a game. Tic-tac-toe is fun until you figure out how to always win-or-tie.

-Max

[K]

MaxWilson said:
It's partly an Outside Context Problem. MoD, for example, has no counter that an attacker can employ within the context of a particular battle. That makes people tetchy if they want a game of tactical maneuvering instead of strategic second-guessing--the counter requires shifting contexts. It's Mentok for the specific battle in question.

-Max

Sure there is. If they have magic rating required to cast MoD on round one, then you need to kill them on round one before they can retreat on round two. There are any number of spells that can do the job. It's not even a strategic "mentok" since overwhelming magical offense on round one is one of the best battlefield strategies.

You can also just send in a weak force that won't set off the AI's "cast my scripted gem spell" detector and then just let them retreat on round 2; if you've taken the adjacent provinces, then they lose a powerful mage.

Heck, even the worse case scenario of "dozens of mages in a castle" can be defeated by sending in one powerful SC and one mage who casts a damaging battlefield spell and then Retreats. By round 75 all those mages are dead or Retreated.

Strategic second guessing of other people's battlefield and other magics IS this game. Moving army men on the map is a small part of this game, and if that's what you want then I suggest playing a less complicated game like Risk.