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  #1231  
Old July 26th, 2004, 08:49 AM

Shane Watson Shane Watson is offline
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

This is I would like to see in the new game:

First: Keep it turn based. If you go real time the game will lose a great deal of it's appeal. Real time games are fine for shoot'em ups for kids. But I like to think that SEIV/V has a little more going for it than that.

Second: Keep the ability to customize everything, but expand upon it. For example, allow players to name systems they don't own. We're not out in space, but we've named just about every dang star we can see, so why can't the players? The only real important thing as far as game play is concerned are the coordinates of the system. Not the name.

Allow for Languages. If you can't speak Nloam, you don't know if they want to give you their riches or their plasma beams. Include a basic language generator that allows you to generate your own language based on Consenant/Vowel/Consenant structure. Use this to create unique language text files for use in planet, ship and character naming.

Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy.

A little more reliance on spatial sciences, including planetary science. Planetary physical descriptions that include diameter, AU, Atmospherics, Hydrographics, gravity, etc, which affect the various races. True random gerneration of planetary characteristics based off of a percentage system.

Individual governments for individual planets, which can later break away or revolt (and have a chance of succeeding).

A functioning economic model that includes resources that you can actually use, combine to create new resources and trade. Manufactured trade goods. Raidable (and displayed) trade lanes. Trade ships. trade centers. Something to do while you are building your empire other than blow something up.

Don't center the game so much on combat. I'd like to see more attention paid to the worlds and politicians that make up your empire. For example, world leaders are never really in total control. There are *always* dissendents, either in the underground or in another political party. Bring them into play to create political infighting in your own empire - if it becomes too much infighting your empire begins to crumble (and what I mean here is something along the line of the former Soviet Union and the way it crumbled). Let these guys be charactes with their own personalities and names taken from your own name file.

The ability to elect or appoint named governors with individual characteristics and personalities that are randomly generated. PM me or email and I can go into detail if need be.

Don't overkill the graphics eyecandy - I'm sick of games that look like they were geared towards 12 year olds. Use realistic graphics for ships and planets, but keep them small and to the point. Planets from IV were for the most part okay. Ships and races by and large needed work.

Take the game out of the Warp Point box. This has been one of my greatest frustrations with an otherwise cool game (aside from the lack of tradeable resources). Include stargate technology or something akin to that, but lose the warp points. Or at least allow for interstellar travel.

Include differnt types of propulsion: Solar Sails, Ramjets, Ramscoops, Ion, Nuclear, Jump, Warp, etc.

Allow players/races to join mid game as break away governments of existing races. Combine this with new player/races just developing interstellar travel in an unexplored part of the map.

*BIG* maps. Space is HUGE. Allow for 10,000 stars or more. Set it up so that there are areas that really never will be visited by the players. It helps create a sense of mystery. Our galaxy is 30,000 light years across with trillions of stars in it. Even if we had space travel, we'd *never* get out there to all of the stars.

Allow multiple games to be hosted in the same galaxy at the same time. Crossovers *could* happen if players are close enough. Players that like to play more than one game at a time would find this aspect interesting, I think. Run it something along the lines of SimCity's Regions with multiple cities that can interact.

Consider a low res 3d map instead of the old style 2d map. I've not seen this done before except in some stellar mapping programs Stars (not the game). That alone would set the game apart if you forced your players to think in 3d. Allow for zooming in and out, and rotating the map.

Change "Facilities" to "Colonies" or "Cities". Allow for randomly generated planetary maps that can be viewed, which show resource and colony locations (player can designate where to place colonies on planets). Have POC's (points of control) on planets so you can actually have a planetary conflict. Keep the maps simple, but versitile.

Show fleets and ships as a simple ">" or some such. Tactical icons can be low res graphics.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Cheers,
~Shane Watson

[ July 26, 2004, 07:52: Message edited by: Shane Watson ]
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  #1232  
Old July 26th, 2004, 09:11 AM

Paul1980au Paul1980au is offline
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

That is a big wishlist but some good ideas there that havent been thought of before esp crossover of PBW games in the same galaxy.

Id say expand the game away from just warp points - but make jump gates more a mid to mid late game technology - i have expanded upon this in this thread. Warp points would be the mainstay but jump gates could provide more strategy in protecting them - but you would build two haul one out with a ship and then have to defend it - but it would allow a limited number of ships per turn to travel from the backwater planets to the frontline - think airports in civ ie limit it to perhaps 8000 kt worth of ships per turn per gate ?

Do you send through a small fleet of lots of ships or a few large unprotected battleships to the frontline.

Diplomacy and a upgraded resources aspect of the game.

Big maps yes for sure 1000 star system games

Revolt and rebellion - perhaps allow whole systems to break away or perhaps if one planet breaks away until you quell the uprising or sign a permanent treaty or have x amount of ships in system there is a sliding scale % chance that other planets will switch sides

If a AI player is removed from the game allow a rebelling race to take their place.

Allow upwards of 50-100 races per game - great for massive systems with massive PBW games. - in said cases allow allainces to win if they take over the whole galaxy. Allow team play ie team 1 with 2 players - team 2 etc permanent game long co operative alliances.

Somehow upgrade the ground based combat system - imperium galatica alliances 2 comes to mind as a base to work from.
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  #1233  
Old July 26th, 2004, 04:45 PM

Shane Watson Shane Watson is offline
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

Yeah, it is kind of big, isn't it? haha. didn't realize it Last night when I posted it. Trouble is that's only a small portion of what I have in mind.

I think the biggest thing that I would push for is some serious realism. For instance, if you are traveling at sub-light speeds, then you are moving at a fraction of lightspeed and that should be shown in system.

For example, break the map legends down thus: -I'd have to look up most of these distances, but they're easy enough to find and or figure.

In System maps:
Light Second - smallest measurement
Light minute
Light Day -largest insystem measurement.

Out System Maps or Stellar Cartography

Lightyear
Parsec -3.26 lightyears, btw, but could be converted to just 3 lightyears for gameplay.
Sector: A sector could be handled in one of two ways. 1. It could be a predefined measurement in the game consisting of say 100 square parsecs. 2. It could be player defined on their tactical map (something that I'm actually in favor of.

Take this idea another step and say that anything that is not a physical constant in the game can be player defined.

Keep the game open ended. Provide a basic physical structure for the players to customize (beyond mods - allow in game changes to government, say, or to policies. Allow players to set up abstracts like puppet governments that have a certain amount of autonomy but are ultimately controled by the player, but eventually can break away - but that doesn't mean they do.

Other thoughts:

[edit] I keep forgetting this: CREWS FOR THE SHIPS with a nameable character* Captain.

Governors characters (I think I mentioned this in my Last post, don't recall): Allow for the governmental figures to be characters that are personality driven with their own agendas who can be appointed, fired, assinated, defect or rebel.

*Names for characters can be taken directly from a pregame generated language file for the player/race.
--- [end edit]---

Allow for racial development based on the planet's physical characteristics, which influence evolution. For example, things to take into account would be the type of star -- how much radiation is the planet getting based on how close it is to its primary. If the planet is outside the biozone - the area that is far enough from the star for water not to evaporate, but close enough for it not to freeze, variable by star type - closer for cooler type K and M, further out for G and F stars - it's simply not going to develop life.

Give planets classification types based on physical characteristic. I can provide an extensive typing chart if needed/wanted. For example:
Class A: Asteroid
Class M: Mulitple Climate Rocky world.
Class J: Jovian World
Class C: Cold Rocky World
Class I: Ice World -- which, btw, would technically be a frozen water world. And, why the hell can't I colonize a frozen world if I can colonize a rocky one? Where is the logic in that?.

And so on. There are more that can be further defined.

Has anyone here played Marc Miller's RPG Traveller? I did a lot back in the day. They had a very elegant and very simple method of keeping track of literally TONS of data. They used a method call the "UPP", which was the Universal Planetary Profile. It used the same basic structurre as their character profiles. So, for instance a world listing would look thus:

Vland 0307-A967A9A-F
After the name, the first four digits where the location in the subsector of planet. Each of the following digits corresponded to a chart outlining what that classification meant. So, fter the dash would be listed, in order:
A: Starport Classification - A being best
9: planetary size - 9 was larger - earth was 7
6: Atmosphere
7: Hydrographics - in this case, literally 70%
A: Population level - in this case, billions - you could go from tens of individuals to 10's of billions on a planet.
9: Government Type -- They had *so many* different types of governments it was unbelievable, including everything from corporate, clans, hive, democracies, republics, dictatorships, etc. But they wheren't just labels. They directly affected the given planet with +'s and -'s.
A: Law Level: potentially impractical for strategic game play, but interesting to note.
F: Tech level. -- Each world had a local technology level dictated by a crossreference of it's population level, starport classification, government and lawlevel. An intersting note I'd like to see carried over. Just because you know how to build something doesn't mean you *CAN*.

Also usually included after the tech level would be trade codes - what was available locally. For example, some of the basic trade classifications for planets were:

Agriculture
Asteroid Belt
Barren World (no one there, produces nothing)
Desert World (0%-10% Hydro rating)
Water World
High population
Ice Capped
Industrial
Low Population
Non-Ag
Non-Industrial
Poor - essentially a third world environment
Rich
Vacuum World - no atmosphere

There were further specific trade goods that were availble, but I think that goes beyond the scope here for the moment.

That said, I'm not suggesting that you rip Traveller for game mechanics, but I am suggesting that we use a model similar to theirs because it worked very, very well.

Digressing back to 10,000 systems for a moment from my previous post - before I found SEIV I played a game called XPACE. You could literally go up to 10,000's of star systems, with planets. It was huge. Epic, as a matter of fact. I loved it. Unfortunately, my computer was old and crashed and killed the program. I've not been able to find a replacement copy. My point is I know it can work because I've seen it done.

One way that the volume of stars could be handled is not to generate the stats until the player visits the system. So you've got the basic top level information such a location and spectral type, but nothing beyond that until someone goes there.

---

Okay, enough for the moment. I've got to get to work. There will be more, I'm sure

Cheers,
~Shane

[ July 26, 2004, 16:17: Message edited by: Shane Watson ]
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  #1234  
Old July 27th, 2004, 06:04 PM

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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

I don't think this has been mentioned, Have Pre Space Flight Planets that can Randomly evolve into a space fligt planets .

In order to commuciate with them you would have to enter orbit of the planet. You could advance them with your technolgy tooo

This would be good with this idea of, There was one of these planets behind enemy lines and if you got a ship to this planet you could give them technolgy if they agreed to attack the enemy.


Next with the idea of getting rid of warp points, I would say keep some of them but you need more advanced tech to discover them but they wouldnt connecting sectors but rather be out anywhere but they would be rare and connect far sides of the map\Galaxy.
As for the Size of Sectors keep the same with a grid line showing them.

Also someone mentioned being able to rename sectors---heres my thought (sorry if its been mentioned) Have an underlined name you cant see so it would be digits so that coorinites wouldnt get messed up so you wouldnt even know that the name was even there and you could name it BUT you could only name it if you were the first or conquered it unless no planets were there in that case you would need to build something there to rename it..


THats my idea
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  #1235  
Old July 27th, 2004, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

I hope to see some sort of "export to video" option, and the player written movies that will inevitably be created from that.
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  #1236  
Old July 27th, 2004, 10:11 PM

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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

Race Specific buildings that can give you a bonus, and some kind of commodities that can be sold that can give bonuses.
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  #1237  
Old July 28th, 2004, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

Quote:
Originally posted by Shane Watson:
This is I would like to see in the new game:

First: Keep it turn based. If you go real time the game will lose a great deal of it's appeal. Real time games are fine for shoot'em ups for kids. But I like to think that SEIV/V has a little more going for it than that.
Absolutely. Please, let's not have SE become a kiddie game.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shane Watson:
Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy. .
Again, yes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shane Watson:
A functioning economic model that includes resources that you can actually use, combine to create new resources and trade. Manufactured trade goods. Raidable (and displayed) trade lanes. Trade ships. trade centers. Something to do while you are building your empire other than blow something up.
I've longed for a deeper economic model since I began playing SE4.


Quote:
Originally posted by Shane Watson:
The ability to elect or appoint named governors with individual characteristics and personalities that are randomly generated.
Absolutely. If I'm an emperor, let me appoint and dismiss governors.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shane Watson:
Don't overkill the graphics eyecandy - I'm sick of games that look like they were geared towards 12 year olds. Use realistic graphics for ships and planets, but keep them small and to the point.
I agree 100%. If the screen shots for SE5 look like the game is descending into cuteness, I won't buy it.

You and I have many of the same ideas on how we want SE5 to look. Unfortunately, I doubt that much of what we want will ever make it into the game. Computer game designers these days invariably choose to aim their product at the teenybop market.
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  #1238  
Old July 28th, 2004, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

I have no problem with developers wanting to do a real-time game. But there are too few good PbEM games for me not to cringe at the idea of turning one into a real-time arcade game. Let the Xbox people cover that territory. The possible improvements to SEIV is still a fertile area without trying to cross genres. IMHO
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  #1239  
Old July 28th, 2004, 01:13 AM

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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

Quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
I have no problem with developers wanting to do a real-time game. But there are too few good PbEM games for me not to cringe at the idea of turning one into a real-time arcade game. Let the Xbox people cover that territory. The possible improvements to SEIV is still a fertile area without trying to cross genres. IMHO
No one is talking about a real time main screen, just real time combat. For PBEM play that would be 100% IRRELEVENT, as you don't (can't) use tactical combat anyway.
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  #1240  
Old July 28th, 2004, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: SE5, Tell Aaron what\'s on your Wish List

Although the main screen would be rendered real time and in 3D, that's for zooming in on planets when you click 'em and showing the ships in orbit and all that good stuff.

Definitely turn based, still. Just real time eye candy.
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