Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[oleg]

Yes, if you run out of space on the planet, you should go "vertical" and upgrade cities. Not much can be done about upgrade trick. The alternative been to raise the upgrade cost but then you will have to scrap the painfully build expensive cities to replace them with megapolises.

In my previous post I was referring to this scenario: you have a new colony with say 15 slots. You can either build cities or build city, upgrade it, build second city ... The former approach is more profitable but at the end you finish with 15 cities and it will take a century to upgrade them all

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by oleg:
You can either build cities or build city, upgrade it, build second city ... The former approach is more profitable but at the end you finish with 15 cities and it will take a century to upgrade them all

Ok, counting the prodution output, which way its more profitable?
Because maybe its not worth the effort to upgrade. I mean pound by pound (bulding time/expected prodution) the cities that you can build in the same time that you build metropolis might be more productive....
And what about Spaceport cities? do they upgrade to metropolis?
I don't know but sometimes I feel that the lowly Mineral miner is the best bet.
.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Ok, counting the prodution output, which way its more profitable?

The upgrade way from the lowest possible facility (minor city) would be more profitable. Your minor cities would produce during the update time AND the overall costs and time are lower than building the higher facility from scratch, see my minor city to metropolis example below.

And what about Spaceport cities? do they upgrade to metropolis?

I think they are different families, so they don't.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

quote:

---

The upgrade way from the lowest possible facility (minor city) would be more profitable. Your minor cities would produce during the update time AND the overall costs and time are lower than building the higher facility from scratch, see my minor city to metropolis example below.
.

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So which way wins the effectiviness contest:
1-Build the 15 minor cities and then upgrade.
2-Build one Minor city, upgrade, then go to the next.

[dogscoff]

So which way wins the effectiviness contest:
1-Build the 15 minor cities and then upgrade.
2-Build one Minor city, upgrade, then go to the next.

Build, upgrade, build, upgrade. The costs are the same, but if you are upgrading as you go you are benefitting from the increased output of the upgraded facilities.

thing is, it takes something like 10 years (100 turns) for most of the city facilites to repay the min/ rad/ org investment of bulding them. Of course there are other benefits that are harder to quantify (shield generation, cargo space, storage, research/ intel output, looking cool) but if you are counting your minerals you probably want to be building nothing but miners anyway. Cities are only for ppl playing the loooooong game.

As a side note, in my single player game I'm about 500 turns in and I have built several megalopoli - some planets have 2 or 3. I also came across an AI world 2 systems away from its homeworld with over 20 major cities and 2000 million ppl on it! This is one well developped AI...

[ February 24, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Aloofi]

[quote]Originally posted by dogscoff:

Build, upgrade, build, upgrade. The costs are the same, but if you are upgrading as you go you are benefitting from the increased output of the upgraded facilities.

...

But the output diference between a minor city and a city doesn't seem to be that great.
Are you sure that its not more efficient to build a new minor city than to upgrade a minor city to a city?
In both cases the original minor city its already producing, but building a new one will bring more income into my treasure than the upgrade increase.
I don't have the game here, so when I get back home I'll check the Facility.txt file to get some hard numbers.
This issue its mighty interesting...

[PsychoTechFreak]

Cities are only for ppl playing the loooooong game.

This mod is in particular for the little longterm builders in us, isn't it? If I would be asked for the most effective way to win, I guess it would be something like:

-not many planets to develop, just for special facilities like ship training etc.
-remote mining for higher production output
-capture as many home planets as soon as possible

But I think the upgrades should take longer or at least as long as the building from scratch and this is not the case. Upgrades can be abused to save time and material. Wasn't there setting value for upgrade costs, maybe this might be tweaked a bit?

EDIT: I am at about 25 years in my single player game and I can second that the AI does quite a good job, developing worlds, ship designs etc., nice ! Troops and WPs on homeworlds, grrrr

[ February 24, 2003, 17:35: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[oleg]

[quote]Originally posted by Aloofi:
[quote]Originally posted by dogscoff:
[qb]

Build, upgrade, build, upgrade.
...

This issue its mighty interesting...

Yes indeed. It comes up every time proportions mod is discussed. Fascinating.

[Fyron]

But I think the upgrades should take longer or at least as long as the building from scratch and this is not the case. Upgrades can be abused to save time and material. Wasn't there setting value for upgrade costs, maybe this might be tweaked a bit?

I am fairly certain that that was PvK's intention there.

[PsychoTechFreak]

I have noticed a way to reduce building times in 2.5.2 (or 2.5.1, I am not quite sure):

Build a Minor City then upgrade to Metropolis, I guess it would be the same with Megalopolis if it is in the same family. I saves about 30% material and time if you like to do the needed micromanagement, is it intended?

Same thing with research center I, upgrade to research megaplex III and others.