vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+ ?

[Gregstrom]

For the sake of suggesting a solution that could work now with less awkward re-coding, I'll throw this into the mix.

Have the dead that appear be units called Vengeful Spirits. Have 6 varieties, with sizez from 1 to 6. The different sizes would represent different numbers of kille (graphics for the larger units would need to show a sort of monster formed from congealed spirits). Say Size-1 = 1 kill, size-2 = 5, 3=10, 4=25, 5=50, 6=100. The larger spirits make up relatively small proportions of the whole force - i.e. for 500 kills you might get 1 of size 6, 3 size 5, 4 size 4, 5 size 3, 10 size 2 and the rest size 1.

Bigger spirits would have better stats, with the size 6 units being able to make an SC slightly nervous. Give them all Morale 30, which I think means they won't autorout before turn 50.

[vfb]

It is much simpler to just ignore kills in a VoD battle, for the purposes of the SC kill count. Then you don't double up the souls. And it still makes sense.

Congealed spirits sounds like some kind of drink I'd rather avoid.

[Gregstrom]

That assumes that ignoring kills is a simple thing to do. I'm guessing that if it was a 5 minute quick fix to do that, someone would have done it.

Also, this works around the auto-kill on turn 75 'feature' of the spell.

If you want to look at congealed spirits irl, try pouring Baileys into Creme de Menthe.

[vfb]

I didn't say it's a five minute fix. But it's an extremely easy fix, especially compared to what you are suggesting. The code already knows if a battle is an assassination, since that's what determines the result of fleeing (death versus escape).

I don't really care about the 75-turn death feature. I just don't like the souls doubling up. It doesn't make sense, and it conflicts with the spell description.

[Gregstrom]

Err, from JO's post earlier, the death on escape happens because the assassination is a battle occurring on a province with no neighbours and not because assassinations run on a special instance of the battle code.

I dislike the 75-turn death feature because it's apparently the cause of many of the kills against even well built SC's. After a certain point it's impossible to kill that many soulless in the requisite time period and death is guaranteed even when it's otherwise unreasonable. The doubling up feature on VotD accelerates a process that can happen anyway.

[vfb]

Oops ! I shouldn't have made that assumption. I still think it would be easier to simply use a flag indicating that the battle is an assassination. We need that anyway so assassination battles can ignore any scripted Retreats.

I can see why you and other people dislike the 75-turn thing. I'm in the "death is part of the game" crowd on that issue though.

[Gregstrom]

I agree that death is part of the game. The death at turn 75 thing is, well, inelegant. And perhaps a bit too arbitrary. Past a certain kill count, it turns VotD into a Mind Hunt that specifically targets that SC you really want to kill instead of the chaff commanders surrounding him, and the casting mage can't even be caught and Feebleminded by other Astral mages. All for 3 gems.

Actually, you might not need the assassination flag to disable retreats. Just tell the AI 'if the province has no neighbours, don't retreat'.

[fictionfan]

Actually the spell Vengeance of the Dead has never worked for me. It has always been resisted. SC's about all ways have hight MR because otherwise they are charmed,enslaved or paralyzed.

[Loren]

Gregstrom said:
I agree that death is part of the game. The death at turn 75 thing is, well, inelegant. And perhaps a bit too arbitrary. Past a certain kill count, it turns VotD into a Mind Hunt that specifically targets that SC you really want to kill instead of the chaff commanders surrounding him, and the casting mage can't even be caught and Feebleminded by other Astral mages. All for 3 gems.

Actually, you might not need the assassination flag to disable retreats. Just tell the AI 'if the province has no neighbours, don't retreat'.

No--this opens up the possibility of an infinite battle. What happens when you have two guys who can't hurt each other? I've seen it happen--two casters who never did anything to each other. One was summoning skeletons, the other was smiting them.

My take on it: So long as the number of real hp's (critters that entered the battlefield, not summons) on the battlefield goes down the battle continues. If nothing is happening then you retreat those who can retreat. You only kill if retreating doesn't resolve the situation.

[Jack Simth]

Loren said:
No--this opens up the possibility of an infinite battle. What happens when you have two guys who can't hurt each other? I've seen it happen--two casters who never did anything to each other. One was summoning skeletons, the other was smiting them.

My take on it: So long as the number of real hp's (critters that entered the battlefield, not summons) on the battlefield goes down the battle continues. If nothing is happening then you retreat those who can retreat. You only kill if retreating doesn't resolve the situation.

That'd do it. You'll want to put a turn count on there before it starts checking for nondecreasing HP, though - you don't want your entire army routing on turn 2 because nobody happened to be in range to shoot at the other guy...