New Russian OOB (or SPR OOB)

[Weasel]

KraMax said:
I welcome you Weasel.

Last version of our OOB it is possible to download here:
www.pecypc.kz/kramax/obat011.obf

You can not download Picklist files if you are not going to play against the computer (USSR/Russia).

Best regards.

That link gives me this:




И|�БMMTTш&#1096

etc. etc. etc, etc, etc


EDITED ---One line would have been sufficient you make your point

[thatguy96]

Just do right click, save as. Its the actual file, not an archive.

[KraMax]

Weasel said:


That link gives me this:




И|�БMMTTш&#1096

etc. etc. etc, etc, etc


EDITED ---One line would have been sufficient you make your point

new link for archive:
www.pecypc.kz/kramax/obat011.zip

[KraMax]

DRG said:

Scenarios do not just refer to weapons data but also the units themselves and this MOD of the Russian OOB makes a complete mess of any scenario in the game that uses the Russian OOB in any way. The almost complete reorganization of the units means what is supposed to be a Mi-24 in a scenario now shows up as an IMR-3 or a BRDM-2 in a scenario has morphed into a PTS-M. I could list dozens , possibly hundreds, of units affected like this but I've got better things to do right now.

The bottom line is this OOB will destroy any scenario in the game that use the Russian OOB. We have already had one "bug" report from someone who couldn't figure out why the Russian scenarios in the game suddenly were a mess so anyone contemplating using this OOB should not be lulled into the false belief that this will not make a total mess out of the existing scenarios because it will. This is why we include " default" OOB's in the game.

Unfortunately we have no way to remind people they are not using the official OOB set when they try to play a scenario.

Don

We will change our OOB and we will place our units as in original OOB.
Also we will change all our formations and picklists.

Dear DRG, we looked Russian picklists in game, and we think that it has become outdated. In him there are no many our armies, in him some our special armies or our military technics are not specified. Over it too it can be necessary to work? We would be ready to help with it.

[KraMax]

DRG said:

We did not have access to that source and in the end, it's just one source that conflicts others . Am I to assume then that you believe that only Russian Language sources are to be deemed correct for Russian weapons ?? Russian sources cannot be wrong?

Don

DRG, we do not think that one source of data can be better than another. Also we do not think that Russian sources NECESSARILY better or more precisely English-speaking sources. But we think that the information on Russian weapon is easier and faster and more precisely it is possible to find in Russian sources.
We also use the special literature, sites on the Internet, etc., we try to process as much as possible information on the weapon and armies.
In game, in our OOB, it is a lot of discrepancies and we wish to help to make real OOB our armies. What in it bad? Certainly these changes can lead to changes in game scenarios, but we also think that accuracy more important and we are assured that it is necessary to make once global changes in OOB. We also understand that you do not wish to do global changes OOB which can lead to changes in scenarios. Therefore we wish to show to you as we should look OOB. Certainly to decide personally - to accept to you changes or not.

We hope for your understanding.

Best regards.

p.s. sorry for my bad English

[narwan]

KraMax said:
AFTER war all trophy weapon was - is handed over on warehouses, the further destiny of this weapon to trace difficult.

Assuming that is what happened with the panzerfausts, did you stop to think about the role of these warehouses and depots? The standard one is to store equipment not needed in PEACE time. The game assumes there will be a war on, that's the whole point of the game. So it would be logical that weapons being held in storage would be used. And since no equivalent existed in the soviet armory until the RPG2 showed up, I'd say it is very likely that if the soviet union were to get involved in war during this period (which is what the game would model) these 'panzerfausts' would show up too.

KraMax said:
I searched in Google - "RPG-1 grenade", "RPG-1", "Panzerfaust" - I have not found any information on that that RPG-1 there was on arms of Red Army, besides that this experimental weapon which was never produced in lots. Also I have not found the information on that that panzerfaust - were used by Red Army AFTER war.

The same really applies here; if war broke out there a good chance the RPG1 would be rushed through production even if it didn't perform perfectly yet. Militairy history, especially ww2, is full of such examples. I'll name just the Panther and the T34, they turned out rather well after a short while...

So including something like the RPG1 in the game seems sensible and logical to me.

[KraMax]

narwan
---------------------
Panzerfaust - was not the regular weapon of the Soviet army, it was the trophy weapon which fighters of red army used in WW2.
RPG-1 - Not only has not been started in a batch production, it has been underfulfilled to a level of production i.e. it is the experimental weapon.

[Marek_Tucan]

KraMax said:
narwan
---------------------
Panzerfaust - was not the regular weapon of the Soviet army, it was the trophy weapon which fighters of red army used in WW2.

but for sure captured PzF stockpiles were kept in wartime reserves? Heck, last Thompsons from Lend-Lease tanks were in reserve till 1997!

[KraMax]

You want that tanks or machine guns on Lend-Lease have been presented at us in OOB?

I am assured that in OOB it is necessary to use the real weapon which was in armies or the weapon which was at war in wars.
I for example did not hear that in the Afghani war - the Soviet army used panzerfaust

[narwan]

KraMax said:
narwan
---------------------
Panzerfaust - was not the regular weapon of the Soviet army, it was the trophy weapon which fighters of red army used in WW2.
RPG-1 - Not only has not been started in a batch production, it has been underfulfilled to a level of production i.e. it is the experimental weapon.

Yes I know and if the soviet union had gone to war in that period these would have been used by it's troops.
Your argument that they didn't use them historically is moot since there was no actual major war the soviet union was involved in in that period and the game assumes that there is!

The same applies to many other OB's. The dutch OB for the 80's is full of stuff that was not part of the active armed forces but which was still kept in some warehouse. By your reasoning this equipment would not have been used (for reserve forces or to replace combat losses) had the warsawpact and NATO gone to war in the 80's.
I can assure you it would have, just like the captured panzerfausts and experimental RPG1's would have been used by the soviets in the late 40's if the soviet union and the western allies had gone to war then.
The game models not just what's on the active inventory of armies in specific historical period's but also what has been stockpiled and mothballed and COULD have been used had war broken out.