MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[Septimius Severus]

Rdonj makes some very strong arguments indeed (thanks for the commentary Rdonj, btw), I just did a quick superficial calculating of scores and presented it, that is all. The two teams are very, very, closely matched. The verdict part of course is just the opinion of an outsider of sorts looking in as to who has the slight edge at this point overall. I suspect (and I hope) that sooner or later one of you, either ACGHHS or The Deva's, will pull out far enough in the score graphs that there will be no question really. We can't all sit around holding hands forever, afterall. No fun in that.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

So for example, if three teams bid for Hinnom, and the highest bid is 7 points... that leaves them 3 points whether that gets them one more nation - or 3.

this might have set teams up like:

Hinnom .....Sauro....Vanheim
Ulm.........Pan......Helmheim
............Arco.....Formoria

Chris, the problem I have with a point system is that it is subjective. Who decides how many points a given nation is worth?

I still cling (perhaps niavely) to the assumption that the developers believed that every nation, properly helmed, had an equal chance of winning. They also believed Fever Fetishes, etc, were important to that balance. This is part of the reason we are an island of vanilla in a sea of CBM, also the reason I never outlaw any nation.

The concept of course I understand, to prevent a repeat of the Devas deadly duo. I think though a simple rule like not allowing the ranked lists for any team to contain both Hinnom/Gath and Neifel would be enough. The first choice priviledge of the Captains, is another check on this (when used correctly) and combined with the the focus on team themes (Death, Blood, Astral) should prevent at least some of the other conflicts that can arise in the nation selection process. So I am not worried.

Game Note:

DrPraetorious has requested a 24 hour delay, which I am graciously posting for him to this thread for the benefit of all.

[Squirrelloid]

Sept, the developers not only failed to balance the game, they weren't trying to. Anyone who has even looked at MA Man or EA Agartha would be painfully aware of that fact.

[rdonj]

Yeah, nations aren't really balanced. There are just some nations that do better than others, most of the time. Of course, all nations have weaknesses. Some of them just have more weaknesses than others.

Lanka, mictlan, and niefelheim were all very solid and top level nation choices by the various captains. Vanheim isn't really near the same general power level as those three, though it is still a fairly potent nation. Hinnom is certainly a top level ea nation as well, but I wouldn't hesitate to put sauromatia in the same category either. So certainly, I would admit that my team and team ACGHHS are a bit stacked given that we both possess two top tier ea nations.

Anyway, I agree with you, a rule to just prevent two top level picks in any one team should probably be sufficient for further iterations of the series.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

I suspect (and I hope) that sooner or later one of you, either ACGHHS or The Deva's, will pull out far enough in the score graphs that there will be no question really. We can't all sit around holding hands forever, afterall. No fun in that.

You're just itching to start the next game. After all, this one has already gone on longer than any of the NvV games . The Devas have been warring with ACGHHS and the blessed ones for a number of turns now. So we are not exactly holding hands. However, so far the battle between the Devas and team ACGHHS has not really involved our best armies. When that happens, we will probably start to see a winner emerge.

Oh: I also wanted to say that so far I don't think the hosting time postponement has gone through. It's at 19 hours atm.

[Gandalf Parker]

I think the devs did a fantastic job of balance (but Im probably biased since I was involved in it). Especially since they took the difficult road to it. But the rock-paper-scissors balance for many different types of play is hard to see.

It is however, unarguable that the game is not balanced if you are looking at 1-to-1 balance for MP games on maps of 100-500 provinces which is where most of the comparisons occur (and the reason for a couple of mods)

[rdonj]

Certainly, pretty much every nation is balanced on a big enough map, because gradually all end games begin to look the same. With a long enough time span and sufficient gems available to players, and let's not even talk about clams... a 1500 or so province game would have the last couple of nations alive so closely balanced, I highly doubt anyone would ever win. But yes, in general and for much of the game, it would be very difficult if not impossible to find two evenly matched nations. Any given nation is stronger on some, weaker on others, and those strengths and weaknesses can change (to a point) depending on how a given player plays it. The strong nations are generally strong because they are likely to be able to defeat a larger number of nations than most other nations can. And the opposite of course for nations that are weaker. Of course, some of the "weaker" nations actually become quite strong later on, and their real challenge is surviving a certain stage or two of the game mostly intact. There are only a few nations in the game that are just never really competetive imo. And what do you know, none of them are in this game!



On a more game-related note, I don't know if you're aware of this septimius, but my team is having trouble getting in contact with illuminated one. And the hosting timer STILL does not seem to reflect the amount of time I believe we should have left on the clock at this point given a 24 hour extension. Gandalf, can you please make sure all is well here and take a burden off my worried little mind? I'm a bit worried, I think we may end up having to call in a sub. Keeping my fingers crossed though.

[DrPraetorious]

Illum. is not answering querries. I'm worried that his computer is down, and I haven't heard from either of my subs in some time.

I'm pretty sure I can get Frank Trollman to do a few turns; but I may need yet another 24h to get him up to speed. Hopefully not.

[Gandalf Parker]

No the timer does not reflect a 24 hour extension.
Ive seen the request, and the explanation, but no response.

But it does show that you still have 12 hours before this should be a problem (unless we get 16 files turned in).

[rdonj]

Yeah, the alternate concept is a good idea, but the actual implementation is a bit difficult. The problem is, I think, that if you go too long into a game before needing the alternates, you're going to lose them due to their doing something else/losing interest. Not sure how to maintain interest in people who aren't even playing the game for several months or more. In our case I think both alternates were also pretty new players and I don't recall seeing either of them having posted at all recently.