Mod: Warhammer Dwarfs, version 0.92 -- Quickfix

[kianduatha]

I'm fiddling around with some of the proposed changes--Runeguards are absolutely terrifying with a high bless. You give up a ton to do so(no air access, imprisoned pretender usually, no gold left over for castles), but the results are hilarious. Think of an E10N4S4 bless. They're suddenly 0 enc, 24 protection, high defense, shielded troops with 17 magic resist.

Of course, your expansion isn't really any higher than that of a normal Longbeard or something strategy. In fact, because of the crazy goldcost of recruiting full on Runesmiths just for troop ferrying(ugh, but thematic), you take a while to get a second castle up. The real bonus is just having these badass Runeguards around.

I really wouldn't put them above 60 goldcost right now, though. You have that gigantic cost of needing to use a 220 gp commander just to bless them. And while they're more or less immune to conventional troops, magic still does a number on them(it just has to not be MR-resistable) and you'll never have a lot of them.

[alansmithee]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

E2 is enough for you to cast Legions of Steel, Earth Might/Strength of Giants, Armor of Achilles/Destruction and Earth Meld (+ you have Grudgestone). Those spells, if used right, can be a lot more devastating than the exhausting Blade Wind. Armed with boots, Journeymen can also take care of casting Weapons of Sharpness.

"Summon Earthpower" as a waste of turn? That reinvogration bonus is absolutely awesome. I often cast it as my first spell, even if the caster isn't likely going to cast any other earth spells (like E2F3 mage for example). Journeymen are also your most cost-effective researchers in the terms of upkeep.

By waste of a turn, I mean it's entirely necessary to cast it to be able to reach any of the decent spells, as opposed to being optional (but amazing) for higher earth caster. Also, legions of steel is inferior to the national spell. And iirc Destruction and Earth Meld have pretty high fatigue, too (I had them in mind, not just blade wind)

I actually love the journeymen, I just don't think they're well-built to be handling much combat casting.

[rdonj]

Well, when I was playing the dwarfs, my most generic sequence of orders for a journeyman runesmith was Summon Earthpower, Legions of Steel, Strength of Giants, X, X.

With a runesmith, my order sequence was Rune of Grungni, Summon Earthpower, Strength of Giants, X, X.

These are pretty similar buff cycles honestly, and while the rune of grungni is slightly superior to legions of steel, it's not really that superior on dwarfs, who have high MR and don't get the weapons of sharpness effect that often. Anyway, once you get construction 7 I think journeyman runesmiths are almost superior to real runesmiths for the majority of your battlefield needs. With boots and summon earthpower they reach four earth, and if you really want it higher and can make one, a crystal shield will bring them to the same spellcasting fatigue as a runesmith with 5 earth magic. Four earth is enough for almost anything you could need, and will allow you to cast all the buffs you want. More cheaply, and for less fatigue than a runesmith due to the lesser spellcasting encumbrance.

Another interesting thing you could do, since dwarfs forge so cheaply, would be to make communion matrixes with your astral random runelords. Then you can make communions with your runesmiths for things like petrify spam, or actually get someone to a decent level of astral magic other than an anvil.

[mehrunes_dagon]

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

[kianduatha]

Yes, they are killer against the AI. The question is if they are killer against actual players. They actually were immobile in the past, and they were absolutely useless because they couldn't accompany actual armies into battle. Frankly, they're your only 'good' battlemages, and do require sacrifices to get to.

What spells were you using with the Anvil against the AI?

I do agree though that the Runelord changes have inadvertently made the Anvil of Doom spell too easy to cast; maybe bump it up to Holy-4 or Earth-6? Speaking of which, the Runelord hero is a bit lackluster these days; Sure, he has S2, which is nice, but before the Runelord changes he was the badass who was actually able to summon Anvils without being prophetized.

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by mehrunes_dagon

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

Please never do any of these. Oh dear god, please. That would be just crippling. If you really need to nerf them, maybe make the runes have some sort of fatigue cost attributed to them so the anvils can't cast all day. But anything beyond that would just be pointlessly excessive. The anvils are pretty much the only way the dwarfs are going to get any kind of decent battlefield magic other than earth, and the requirements are already pretty high. Given that they're also quite large and healthy, they should also make somewhat easy targets....

Anyway I think the anvil in its current iteration is an interesting sort of mechanic and I would like to see them stay as they are.

[HoneyBadger]

Do the anvils have any sort of armour on them, currently?

I was thinking that, considering they're massive blocks of metal, you might represent that by giving them armour, which could then be rusted away via various spells, leaving the anvil itself intact, but with a serious penalty to Prot.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by mehrunes_dagon

I'm playtestesting Dwarves version 0.7 against other warhammer nations, with mighty AI (=160% bonus). Anvil of doom, when summoned at least every 2nd turn, is a real killer. I'm filling hall of fame with them.

I suggest making them immobile, increasin their gem cost, making the one who summon them 10 years older, increasing research level of the killing runes, or something like that

It's one of those units that will just smash the AI, because the AI just too retarted to come up with anwsers. It's the same thing as with thugs/SC's/BF spells and the like. If you feel like they spoil your SP experience, you can just not summon them. Really, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come up with anwsers to the Anvils, but the AI is too dumb to use them.

Some examples, just out of my head:
1) Mind Duel (you can easily use S2 mages to duel them, since anvil costs 35 gems, you will easily come out ahead)
2) Fire/Attack Largest commands (Anvils have more hp/size than most units in dwarf armies)
3) Troops with fire & shock resistance
4) Seeking Arrows (2 hits will often kill, 1 cripples their spellcasting with the +5 enc affliction)
5) Disease Demons/ Manifestation (depending on the script of the Anvil)

I have been thinking about making the primal runes cost 10/15 fatigue, but I hardly see a reason for it, since in my testing Anvils seem to start spamming "Paralyze" after running out of script.

Rune of Thunder/Fire really look and seem powerful in game. But one should realize that other nations can get really similiar effect by just bringing mages into battle. Rune of Thunder equals 3 thunderstrikes (admittely with much lower fatigue), which in turn is not that much more amazing than 3 High Seraphs. Rune of Fire basically has the desctuctive power of 3-4 F2 mages going for Falling Fires. And with the fatigue aspect going to waste as soon as the script runs out...

Originally Posted by kianduatha

I do agree though that the Runelord changes have inadvertently made the Anvil of Doom spell too easy to cast; maybe bump it up to Holy-4 or Earth-6?

Earth 6 is a bit problematic, since you'd need two earth boosters to cast the spell, which is pretty hard to do in CBM 1.6(or get really luck out with randoms, since the chance for Runelord E5 with 0.8 randoms is about 2%). H4 would likely be okay, although it's just a logistical problem with prophet placing.

Originally Posted by kianduatha

Speaking of which, the Runelord hero is a bit lackluster these days; Sure, he has S2, which is nice, but before the Runelord changes he was the badass who was actually able to summon Anvils without being prophetized.

I'll probably dwiddle with his paths a bit and make him a bit more thematic too. A1W1F2E3S2H3, the elemental will power represent his ancient knowledge (from the golden empire, when dwarfs were more connected to the elements). I'll give him a pretty big researchpenalty thought (he doesn't share his screts). I might give him H4 too, since that'd make him able to easily power himself up to casting the primal runes (ancient power!).

[rdonj]

I don't really think the primal runes need to cost fatigue either. I have had more luck getting them to continue to fire after the script runs out, but I've only used them against huge chaffy AI armies, so.... Also, when things start getting close to the anvils, their precision is so high that with rune of fire, I've frequently seen all the shots hit one square, which can seriously lower the total damage output on most things.

If you did change the runelord hero like that, he would definitely be much more useful. It would be very tempting to manually site search with him early on, but if he could actually cast the primal runes that would make him pretty awesome.

[Burnsaber]

New version.

Tired.

That is all.