So far what nations look strong... and weak? - Page 10

Kaljamaha · #91 November 24th, 2003, 01:45 AM

I've had the AI use Magic Duel against me, quite successfully even. For the whole story, check my post in the "Dominions 2. AI. Suggestions, that how to fix it." thread, currently on page two.

K.

Keir Maxwell · #92 November 24th, 2003, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game?

I like Magic Duel,
. . .
My only problem with Magic Duel is that I think it should do 200 fatigue damage rather than kill the loser(s).

Thats a big difference Jasper. If that was what Mind Duel did my objections would decline.

As another poster put - all those discussions on dom1 races that ended with "I would play it except for the vunerability to mind duel." That sentence summerises Marignon race discussions in Dom1.

I love designing and honing races. Doing so for me is closely tied with questions like - does it work in MP? Though I play only a fraction of my designs in MP that is what they exist in relation to. Mind Duel is a killer on Multi-player options. MP needs lots of options or it becomes a bit stale over time what with all the analysis and play that goes on.

And that is why I dislike Mind Duel so much in its current form.

The good news is that banning Mind Duel from use seems to work fine.

Does banning Mind Duel make Astral too powerful - dunno.

Cheers

Keir

ps. I tend to agree with Jasper that Astral remains one of the most powerful branches of magic.

apoger · #93 November 24th, 2003, 02:43 AM

>That sentence summerises Marignon race discussions in Dom1.

Heh, check out Tein Chi. They are the new poster child for magic duel smack down. Makes Marignon look strong (from an astral standpoint).

I like the fatigue idea, but would suggest 100 rather than 200. If it's 200 and the mage has cast a singe spell, it'll be instant death. Perhaps the new "paralyzed" flag would be better than fatigue?

#94 November 24th, 2003, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Astral magic has some of the most powerfull Evocations, Alterations, and Thaumaturgy.
Star Fires, Stellar Cascades, Ethereal, Luck, Astral Weapon, Astral Shield, Teleport, Gateway, Soul Slay, Mind Hunt. It's got a bunch of good spells that also require other paths too. It's argueably the most powerfull path, despite Gateway and Star Fires being weakened.

Yes, all those spells that are very good and help to build very strong individuals, they are also mostly low path requirements.
Star Fires 1 Astral
Stellar Cascades 2 Astral
Body Ethereal 1 Astral
Luck 1 Astral
Astral Weapon 1 Astral
Astral Shield 1 Astral

... etc.

All you need is 4 Astral, or even 3 or 2 if you want to try to empower.

I think that Mind Duel is to make the very powerful effects of Astral have a reprecussion and lower the chance of the Supercombatant armies that they have been fighting since Dom1.

Edit: I didn't mean that Astral was not powerful; but with the inclusion of Mind Duel it's power is not overt. You take a chance having Astral as opposed to any other school which has no countermeasure. I had way too many conversations and Posts going on at the time ;/

[ November 24, 2003, 01:14: Message edited by: Zen ]

Graeme Dice · #95 November 24th, 2003, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
I like the fatigue idea, but would suggest 100 rather than 200. If it's 200 and the mage has cast a singe spell, it'll be instant death. Perhaps the new "paralyzed" flag would be better than fatigue?

That sounds more in tune with my image of a duel on the astral plane. Have them paralyzed for the rest of the battle (60+ turns) with an easily negated MR check to avoid feebleminding.

Keir Maxwell · #96 November 24th, 2003, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
>That sentence summerises Marignon race discussions in Dom1.

Heh, check out Tein Chi. They are the new poster child for magic duel smack down. Makes Marignon look strong (from an astral standpoint).

Do I like races with crippling disadvantages or do the sort of races I like tend to have crippling disadvantages?

I love Tien Ch'i but so far I'm under impressed. Inability to find orders that allow the double armed cavalry to do their things is a big part of the problem. It sad when your defining troop type is messed up.

Keir

Jasper · #97 November 24th, 2003, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I love Tien Ch'i but so far I'm under impressed. Inability to find orders that allow the double armed cavalry to do their things is a big part of the problem. It sad when your defining troop type is messed up.

I find their 25 gold cavalry, composite Bow, Lance, prot 14, and strategic move 3 to be good. True, the kinds of orders that would really take advantage of the combined lance/bow are too conditional for pre plotted movement. Still I find either setting them with no orders or with orders to attack rear depending on what I expect them to face to be effective.

What sort of order to you envision that would really help them?

HJ · #98 November 24th, 2003, 09:43 AM

The question was not directed at me, but I was thinking about the "fire and attack" order. We now have "fire and flee", "hold and attack", so "fire and attack" where a unit would fire its missile weapon for two or three turns (or two or three times I guess for crossbows) and then switch to attacking seems logical. And useful, not only for Tien Chi, but for friendly fire mishaps as well, for example, when you're facing a weak army and don't need a constant barrage of arrows/bolts.
I'm also thinking about legionnaires, as this was their standard tactic historically. If the enemy is not in range, then the squad would approach that turn, as missiles do in general. But it would suit Tien Chi cavalry even better, as they would cause disorder with their bows first, and then charge the shaken formations with lances. Very effective in theory.

[ November 24, 2003, 07:54: Message edited by: HJ ]

Humer · #99 November 24th, 2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
Any other opinions? Does anyone out there ENJOY what magic duel brings to the game? This is perhaps the question that needs to be asked.

I like mind duel. Astral is said to be the most powerful Arcana (in manual, if I'm not mistaken). There's nothing like having your mages picked up one by one by a superior astral mage. It really makes you think strategy. Really. It pisses me off, but I tend to take it as a learning experience.

Counter-balance-wise other paths have better summons and mass-destruction spells. What astral can do to that end?

Dabble in astral and be ready to pay the price. Master the astral and be one to collect the price.

- Humer

Wendigo · #**100** November 24th, 2003, 11:33 AM

Astral is brutal in the end game, easily the most powerful field excluding Blood summons, and it also has some good tricks for early expansion vs inddies. The good thing about astral is its versatility, and the fact that the related ward can only protect to a certain degree.
I would be willing to prove the point vs anyone that thinks otherwise.

Concur with most of Jasper's points. I like having Magic duel in the game (and this from a player that has spent quite some time playing a 2nd tier astral nation), tho the effects from a lost duel are open to debate & suggestions.

I cannot see how some players claim that 'banning Magic Duel increases options', IMO it does the opposite: every single SC pretender will be designed with some astral proficiency because it gives both mobility & the *best* combat booster spells. It's the best magic to have on a SC with the risk removed, and gives Mind Hunt immunity as a bonus.

[ November 24, 2003, 09:34: Message edited by: Wendigo ]