Question mounted guns destroyed by artillery

Mario_Fr · #1 February 10th, 2013, 05:30 PM

Playing the game it occurred to me that my ATG`s that were mounted in artillery prime movers (or trucks or utility vehicles) were destroyed by artillery that only hit an ADJACENT hex. I did some tests and found out that this seems to happen quite automatically (when I shoot at them with infantry it`s the same). The gun is destroyed for sure and their crew 8 out of 10 times also, while the prime mover isn`t even buttoned.
If I change the unit class of an artillery prime mover to APC (without adding armour of course) and bombard it, it acts completely different. When an adjacent hex is hit, the gun survives of course. A direct hit in the hex can cause the prime mover and the gun to be destroyed, sometimes only the gun is destroyed or only the prime mover (or both survive and the prime mover is buttoned or routed).

Mario

Mobhack · #2 February 10th, 2013, 11:38 PM

An APC is an armoured vehicle so it protects its passengers. A prime mover is a soft vehicle class, just like a truck, so it does not. Even if the OOB designer added armour to it, the passengers are riders like on a tank.

If I have arty to move around the place then I usually look for a half-track or similar APC with enough carrying capacity to use. Especially if trucking mortars or ATG which do not react well to being in a soft vehicle hit by fire.

Also - in the next release the forced dismount (with attendant risk of casualties) for passengers of soft vehicles or tank riders will only be 70%, not 100%.

Andy

Mario_Fr · #3 February 11th, 2013, 04:52 AM

Is it possible to change the arty prime movers to APC-status? Actually they are supposed to tow guns, not to transport infantry.
I mean, I don`t mind losing my ATG`s when they are really hit, but right now this unit class is not really suited for transporting arty. Every time some shell comes near, the gun gets destroyed automatically.

Mario

Imp · #4 February 11th, 2013, 05:10 AM

Thats because its a soft skinned target so it sounds correct to me. Bits fly through its thin skin or canvas & kill the "soft' people huddled together inside. Most times if its not a near hit this causes little damage to the tough part of the vehicle, chasis & engine so it can at least keep going.
Same principle as riddling a car with SMG fire, it might stop eventually if the radiator is hit otherwise it wont have much effect unless you get a lucky shot or of course take the best option & try aiming for the driver.

Mobhack · #5 February 11th, 2013, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario_Fr

Is it possible to change the arty prime movers to APC-status? Actually they are supposed to tow guns, not to transport infantry.
I mean, I don`t mind losing my ATG`s when they are really hit, but right now this unit class is not really suited for transporting arty. Every time some shell comes near, the gun gets destroyed automatically.

Mario

There is no such thing in SP as a "towing only" unit. All have a carry capacity, and that is nasty and complex, and not very good for such differentiations. SP does not tow - everything is carried internally.

Make an artillery tractor have a large carry capacity so it can "tow" the biggest, heaviest available field piece and you probably have given it a humongous infantry carrying capacity. (Same problem can occur with tank transporters - but these are deliberately very slow to stop that sort of abuse).

Looking at most OOBS, the artillery tractor is rather useless. Some have armoured ones - it only protects the vehicle. Some may be 4WD. But there are usually medium or heavy trucks with the requisite carry, if you only need 2WD. Some of these trucks especially in MBT have 4WD in any case. Or even the ubiquitous 3/4 to 1 ton or so 4WD truck, which can carry most useful field pieces - and is significantly faster than medium or heavy trucks.

I only ever have light 15cwt or similar trucks in any core force to shift Flak and ATG around, and as and when a half-track comes available with a decent lift capacity I upgrade to that. I'd rather have an open-topped tin-plate APC than any form of soft skin truck.

But the "artillery tractor" - is probably just there for scenario flavour I suppose. A designer can have an on-map battery of 25 pounders with the proper Morris Quads lined up behind them.

cheers
Andy

Pfor · #6 February 11th, 2013, 01:17 PM

In the user guide, Class 180 is described as 'Special class for heavy artillery prime transport'.

Is there any way (short of extensive testing) to identify whether this class in fact has any unique characteristics and if so what they are?

If not, would it be correct to say that vehicles in that class can be used just like any other soft-vehicle class?

Thanks

Mobhack · #7 February 11th, 2013, 02:21 PM

They are just another soft vehicle class - one an OOB designer can use for such as the Morris Quad, to separate it from the regular trucks.

There is nothing special that they require to carry arty that medium or heavy trucks don't already have. (The Morris Quad is 4WD, but that is probably not a general case for arty prime movers. The Komsolets is a track move class and armoured - but the armour does nothing for the passengers of course!)

Andy

georgesedlak · #8 February 19th, 2013, 10:05 PM

Sometimes when there is a lot of artillery landing, and planes flying around and I have to move that mortar. Keep the vehicle and mortar in the same hex, load the mortar, move as far as possible and unload again in the same move. Next turn repeat the process, this might sound ridiculous but if you're hit at least it's unloaded moving at speed of 2 and will probably survive even if the vehicle doesn't. I've lost too many good units trapped in vehicles.

void1984 · #9 February 20th, 2013, 06:28 AM

Gamey.

Imp · #10 February 20th, 2013, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Sometimes when there is a lot of artillery landing, and planes flying around and I have to move that mortar. Keep the vehicle and mortar in the same hex, load the mortar, move as far as possible and unload again in the same move. Next turn repeat the process, this might sound ridiculous but if you're hit at least it's unloaded moving at speed of 2 and will probably survive even if the vehicle doesn't. I've lost too many good units trapped in vehicles.

If its artillery your expecting & your not on a rough hex then moving is an option but for planes I tend to just stay stationary, moving units are far easier for the plane to see & hence become a target. If anything move the empty truck so both units are not in the same or adjacent hexes.