Question: winter movement

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Mario_Fr

Cross, what do you mean with 'medium difficulty' map feature?

If you look at movement costs for various map features, approximately:

Road, clear and field could be termed 'easy' to traverse.

Trees are about 'medium' cost.

Rough, mud and swamp are 'difficult', and you really have to avoid these with vehicles apart from exceptional circumstances.

If Trees become similar to Rough, then we've lost the only 'medium difficulty' map feature. Map features would mostly be easy or difficult.

Even orchards would be avoided by vehicles, because orchards have the same movement cost as trees. IRL, orchards were often used to park-up in because they provided cover but were easily accessible for vehicles.

That said, I do think forests are too easy for vehicles currently. But I think vehicles should be able to pull into the first layer of trees, or through a tree a line, with relative ease.

If 'sparse trees' aren't an option then I don't know what the best answer is...

cheers,
Cross

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Cross

Don't forget that movement often got easier in many situations where the ground was frozen. The mud of a thaw often caused more problems than snow.

regards,
Cross

Yes. So what is the justification for such restrictions on mobility during winter? One might think a clear or lightly snowed hex wouldn't affect tracked or foot movement at all, only moderate snow to snowdrifts. Same for a road, unless it's icy. Or am I missing something? Thanks.

[Imp]

Going off topic a bit but as it seems like Andy is dabling with the map & movement at the moment trees are in my view the thing that could do with updating.
Orchards are obviosly sparse trees or large bush type plants so a minor hinderance.fine as they are.

For woods / jungle a possible other ways to do it.
Two types of wood
Normal wood/jungle & dense wood/jungle
Most woods completly surrounded by other woods would be dense the rest normal.
They could offer diffrent levels of cover, move rates & possibly heights
Dense woods should also be breakdown hexes at a higher level than rough, Say tracked could move 2 hexes at minor risk 3 is gambling.

Vehicles now skirt large areas of woods & can still dash across open to the woods edge though they standard woods could also have a low breakdown chance if wish, say at risk if moving over 6 hexes.

This will still let vehicles take advantage of clearings & race across 1 or 2 clear hexes.

Modifying the map generator though would be major work so perhaps for map makers only & I am not sure how the AI would deal with it either.

You could make trails to buy putting a line of standard trees through the dense trees, ideal for ambush possibly

At the moment you can combine rough & impassable terrain with trees to slow or prevent vehicles but this gives infantry high levels of cover & the AI does not handle impassable terrain to well.

Get rid of a paved road type if need a spare button the only diffrence I can see between them is cosmetic, or give it over to brush which would have similar properties to high grass possibly offering slightly better concealment.

[Mobhack]

There wont be any new terrain types - we are at the limit already.

Orchards are simply less dense trees for height and for seeing through.

Cheers
Andy

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

There wont be any new terrain types - we are at the limit already.

Orchards are simply less dense trees for height and for seeing through.

Cheers
Andy

As terrain types are at their limit, I wonder if it would be possible to change either orchards or hedges to a more universal terrain type. The goal to have both 'dense trees' and 'sparse trees' terrain.

I have no idea what code is tangled up with orchards or hedges, but if it's possible...

If hedges could be changed:
Change trees icon to sparse trees icon.
Change hedges icon to dense trees icon.
Make hedge movement penalty +2 over current trees (sparse trees).
This means that the only existing maps affected would be Normandy, where hedges will look a little different and would be easier to cross than in the past, but still harder than regular trees (now sparse trees).
Orchards would keep the same movement, which would be the same as sparse trees.
Future maps could use dense trees and sparse trees.


If orchards could be changed:
Change orchards label to 'sparse trees'.
Leave orchard movement alone.
Give trees +2 movement over current trees movement.
Add additional orchard icons showing sparse trees, so map designers could cycle through sparse trees using random icons for sparse trees, but choosing centred 'orchard' icon for a more planted orchard look.
Existing maps wouldn't be affected.
Orchards/sparse trees would now be easier to move through than trees.


Just some thoughts on the off-chance the code wasn't too tangled.


Cross

[DRG]

In next release scenario designers with the CD edition will be able to edit terrain density ( and obstacle height ) and that includes trees so it will be possible to edit a map so that there could be less dense or more dense stand of trees. It will all be explained in the game guide. I have no intention of removing orchards.

Don

[Cross]

Sounds like a great solution.

I'll look forward to trying it out.

Cross

[Imp]

This next update is looking rather intresting, some tactics might just go out the window with the latest offerings. I am also looking forward to having a play with the map editor & seeing what some people come up with.

Got to love the dedication to this game & the constant tweaks sometimes in a totaly unexpected direction by Don & Andy.
This quite possibly has to be the best supported game on the planet.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Imp

This next update is looking rather intresting, some tactics might just go out the window with the latest offerings.

.......more than you could guess. All will be revealed just before release



Don

[Mario_Fr]

Originally Posted by DRG

In next release scenario designers with the CD edition will be able to edit terrain density ( and obstacle height ) and that includes trees so it will be possible to edit a map so that there could be less dense or more dense stand of trees. It will all be explained in the game guide. I have no intention of removing orchards.

Don

Don, will this also pertain to the random map generator in the long campaigns or only to the map editor for scenarios? It would be perfect if it would affect campaign-play as well.

Mario