Czech OOB 5.5

[Pibwl]

Many suggestions concerning Czechoslovak/Czech OOB. Much info is based upon a Czech page http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 (it has English equivalent http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 but most pages are in Czech only anyway) - seems very detailed and rather complete inventory of Czechoslovak equipment. There is also a reliable-looking service http://vojenstvi.cz with Q&A on the CS Army (in Czech).

#004, 007, 021 TO-54, TO-55, TO-34 - Czechoslovakia almost certainly didn't use flamethrower tanks (as most - if not all Warsaw Pact countries but the USSR). They aren't listed on valka.cz. Also an article on the Czech flame tank prototype MP-1 in HPM 6/93 magazine suggests, that no flame tanks were bought by the CS army.

#010 T-55AM1 - according to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_69.htm (no.1027), first 40 prototype units of Kladivo FC system were delivered in 1982. So maybe starting date should be 1983? (now it's 1984). According to this page, ammunition in modernized variants was lowered to 38 rounds (due to FC system blocks): 18 HE, 4 AP, 6 HEAT, 10 APDS. The name could be changed to T-55AM1 Kladivo - it was quite common, although it wasn't official tank name.

#011 T-55AM2 - the name could be changed to T-55AM2 Kladivo. Ammunition should be 38 rounds (see above)

#013 T34/76 M1943 - designation M1943 wasn't used in practice (rather in modern books) and is useless, since there is only one T-34/76 in OOB. There should be "T-34" rather than "T34"

#22 IS-3 - according to an article in HPiM and http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/465 only 2 were bought, although they were used in line unit. More numerous were IS-2 - 8 tanks from 1946 until probably mid-50s (http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_9.htm , no.132), so maybe it should be changed (or IS-2 should be added).

#23 SU-76M - also known locally as LSD-76, if we'd like to add flavour instead of recognizability (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/.../292874#292874 ). According to table at http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_51.htm used only from some 1950 until at least 60 (now:46-55). Wouldn't need change in formations date if we add SD-75/40N (Stug-III) in this class (see below).

#24 SU-85 - the quoted pages don't mention that any were used in CS.

Could be replaced with SD 75/40N (StuG-IIIG), used from 1946 (in significant numbers from 9/47) until 1954, stored until 1960 - http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/79297 . No side skirts, presumably some Soviet AAMG.

#25-27 SU-100 - local designation was SD-100 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/38481 )

#28 SU-100M - 14.5mm AAMG should be verified. It was very uncommon weapon in all Soviet bloc, as a tank AAMG. None of photos of Czech SU-100 on a page above shows any AAMG, especially huge one, with no mention in a text either.

#29 ISU-152 - also known locally as TSD-152 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 ). According to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_9.htm (No.132), they were stored until 1972, so they could be given to border guard in case of emergency.

#30 BRDM-1 Shmel - (2P27 Shmel vehicle) - only 1 was delivered to Czechoslovakia, in 1962/63 for tests (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/23021 ). To be removed in my opinion. Anyway, proper picture is 29057 and it carried only 6 missiles.

#31 BRDM-1 Falanga (2P32) - to be removed from all countries but USSR - according to this Russian page http://cris9.narod.ru/rva_2p32.htm there are no signs of their export. Not mentioned on quoted pages either.

#32 BRDM-2 Fal.-M1 (9P137) - to be removed from all countries but USSR - according to this Russian page http://cris9.narod.ru/rva_9p137.htm it wasn't exported. There are also no signs of their service in CS.

#33 BRDM-2 Malutka - the quoted inventory and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_50.htm (no.745) strongly suggest, that Czechoslovakia used only 9P133 Malutka-P (unit #36) - this unit is 9P122 Malutka-M, with older missiles. It should be changed to early variant of #36 unit, with #155 missiles (introduced in 1975). Would need #82 formation change, being earliest and leading unit (instead of 433/434 units).

#34 BRDM-2 Konkurs - proper pic is 29253. It carries 15 missiles (now it has 10) (source: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/21963 and others). More proper name is 9P148 Konkurs. According to http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=571 they were delivered in second half of 1980s (now it's 1979).

#35 MT-LB/82 - the quoted inventory nor other sources doesn't mention such SP-mortar in CS service (in fact I've found only vague info, that such variants were developed in Bulgaria and currently in Russia, with no info if they were ever produced or exported). Definitely to be removed. Formations #15, 16 should be changed according to earliest unit #417.

#36 BRDM-2 Malutka - better name is BRDM2 Malutka-P or 9P133 Malutka-P. Used from 1975 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/21966 ) (now it's 1990). It carried 6 missiles and 8 reloads. There could be created two units with different vision (I suggest instead of unit #33). It should be earliest unit in #82 formation. By 2011 they were withdrawn (http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_50.htm -no.745), probably even several years before.

#37 SU-76M - also known locally as LSD-76, used circa 1950-60 (see #23) (needs change in #53 formation date)

#38 2S7M Malka - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/10549 and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_81.htm (no.1202) it was just basic 2S7 Pion variant and used until 1993 (now it's 120). Used from 1984, but I don't know when exactly (now it's 1985).

#39 2S1 Gvozdika - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/12583 , first 4 introduced in 1976 (now it's 78). They should have no AAMG (what is evident on photos and concerns all countries).

#41 BTR-40A - the quoted inventory and http://vojenstvi.cz/ doesn't mention any BTR-40. CZ-Wikipedia doesn't list Czechoslovakia among users of BTR-40 and I've found no other signs on their usage in CS either. Removal makes gap in #18 and #52 formations (unit #415 might be extended).

#42, 43 T-54AM1/AM2 - could be named Kladivo (as #10)

#45 9K31 Strela-1M - just for information: according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/9086 , only 4 were used since 78 (it's OK then, although not numerous)

#47 SA-75 Dvina - proper icon is 4548

#51 BTR-40 - see #41 - no signs of their usage in CS. Gap in armoured car formations could be filled creating other AC from 1946, like Humber LRC.

#52 BRDM-1 - BRDM-1s were very rarely armed with 12.7 mm DShk, if at all (it concerns all countries). Standard armament was only one 7.62mm SGMT (precisely saying, AAMG variant was named SGMB). According to http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=03-02&lang=en they were used quite shortly and were quickly replaced with OT-65 (12/69 would be good ending date IMO, now its 96). It was named just "BRDM", without "1".

#53 BRDM-2 - pages http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index2_en.php , http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/...zkumne-vozidlo and http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/23028 mention only special chemical reconnaissance version BRDM-2rch used in CS (armed with one 7.62 PKT, used from 1975). There are no photos of ordinary BRDM-2 in CS service either.

#54 OT-62 - could be named OT-62 TOPAS (although it was a commercial name). Armament was 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG in turret. Speed should be 19-20 (58-60 km/h, now 18). According to Bronekollektsya book on PT-76 tank and a mention on the page below, serial production started in 1963 only (now: 1/62). According to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/13336 , last was withdrawn in 1994 (now it's 12/96). No formation change.

#55 OT-64C SKOT - according to a Czech book on Skots, proper name of armed variant was OT-64 SKOT-2A or OT-64 2A. Removed until 2004, except for foreign missions, but they seem to use unarmed variants (now: until 110).

#56 OT-62D - it is OT-62 in fact (OT-62D was a variant with more powerful vz.59 RCL mounted upon a deck - see http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/38473 ). I suggest name "OT-62 /T21" (T21 is a symbol of Tarasnice). First date 1963, last 1994, machine gun was 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG, crew was 3, speed should be 19-20 (see #54).

Proposed unit: tank destroyer OT-62D with #153 82mm M59 RCL, vz.59 AAMG and #158 Tarasnice (see photos on a page quoted above). Used probably in 1964-94. Ammo - like unit #377 ?...

#57 BTR-50PK - used until 1966 at least (now 12/62) (http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=02-04&lang=en ) 1959 seems correct ("from the end of 1950s")

#58 OT-65 FUG - no precise first date, but according to http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=03-01&lang=en it was presented to public in 5/65 (now it's 1/66). Used until mid-90s (now: 120). It carried no fixed armament - basic variant is only sometimes seen with crew's LMG on bipod.

Proposed unit: there MUST be added OT-65A Vydra - like #58 OT-65 FUG, but armed with 82 mm recoilless rifle #158 and 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG. Icon could be 2334. Crew 4. http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/...zidlo/p/252669 I don't now a starting date, but there is a photo from 1969. Maybe some 1967?

Proposed unit: DPP OT-65M - FO vehicle - like #58 OT-65 FUG, armed with 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG. Crew 5. http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/84054

#60 9K33M3 Osa-AKM - 9K33M Osa-AKM was introduced in 1984 (now: 1/86) (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/6071 and http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=554 ) (I haven't found info on "9K33M3" in CS service)

#62 BTR-50P - no signs of service of open-topped BTR-50P in CS (http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=02-04&lang=en and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_30.htm no.444). To be removed IMO. Formations 220,222 should be changed according to earliest and leading unit #57 - or there should be created earlier Bren Carrier.

#64 BVP-1 - standard load for all countries were 4 missiles (only theoretically there could be the 5th carried always on launcher). According to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_61.htm (no.907), the first regiments were armed with BVP-1 in 1974. It would need changes to some formations. By the way, only in 1974 the Soviets introduced HE ammo for BMP-1.

#65 BVP-2 - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/10482 and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_36.htm (no531) introduced in 1983 (now it's 1/80).

#66 OT-90 - should have turret armor like BRDM-2 (2/1/1). There should be added modernized variant OT-90M2, replacing OT-90 from 1/95, with armor 4/3/2. According to photos and drawings, they have no SD.

Next to come.

[DRG]

I've put this all on the list to look into . When I do get to it there will likely be questions

Don

[Pibwl]

I've accidentaly posted unfinnished post - I've just corrected the first post, according to final version. In a couple of days I should send next suggestions, which I'm working upon. Questions are of course welcome.

[Pibwl]

Supplement to previous post:
#55 OT-64C SKOT - according to a Czech book on Skots, armed APC variant was effectively withdrawn by 1991-92 and their turrets were used for OT-90. Special unarmed variants remained longer.

Proposed units: in early 1990s there were created modifications for peacekeeping forces in Yugoslavia: with OT-62 turret with 7.62mm MG (also known, rather unofficially, as OT-93 - apparently developed in 1993) and a variant with pivot DShK AAMG (probably from 1992 - beginning of missions, pic 9121). They are probably used until today. In late 1990s part of OT-93 were bought also by Uruguay, along with normal OT-64.

Further units:

#67, 68 Medium Truck - it's worth mentioning, that standard Army truck since 1954 until was all-terrain 6x6 Praga V3S (pic 23488)

#46, 69, 70 9K35 Strela-10M, SA-13b Gopher, SA-13c Gopher - Czech MoD page http://www.acr.army.cz/technika-a-vy...na/default.htm and others shows Strela-10M as the only version used by the Czech Army, so all three should be named 9K35 Strela-10M. However, I don't know, if they all are justified. There is no information, that they underwent any upgrade. According to http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=553 it was used from 1983 (now: 1/80). It remains on the MoD page as still in use, although I've read in some article, that they were withdrawn by 2011. Unit #46 has too poor data - vision=0, FC=0, EW=2 while Strela-10M in Russian oob has 30/3/3 (like unit #69) - it should be equal.

#72 Malutka ATGM - local name is Maljutka. According to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/...ka-AT-3-Sagger and http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=567 introduced in 66 (now it's 69).

#73 Malutka-2 ATGM - weapon #155 9M14P Malutka-P was semi-automatically guided missile, used with SP-launchers only (could be theoretically fire from ground launchers, in manual mode, without increased accuracy). On the other hand, Malutka-2 was a Russian development from late 80s. I don't think, that the Czechs would obtain new Russian version of this otherwise obsolete system, and there is no confirmation on these Czech pages.

#74 Strela-2 Team - I've found no data as for CS, but 1/67 is impossible, since it was accepted for the Soviet Army in January 1968 (in Soviet oob: 1/68). I'd say 1/69 or 1/70 at best. Date might need some formation changes.

#83 M53 100mm ATG - it was Czech weapon - weapon's name could be changed from "BS-3" to M.53 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/676 ) (it's also used only by some bunkers). According to this page, it was in use until beginning of 1990s.

#84 M1944 100mm ATG - inventory http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 doesn't mention BS-3 guns. The Czechs had indigenous 100 mm gun above. To be removed?

[Pibwl]

#75 Javelin ATGM - radio code could be modified, since only 3 launchers were bought for special forces (cs.wikipedia).

#78 57mm AT-Gun - last date 12/96 for these WW2 guns is quite doubtful - I guess used until 1991 at best.

#82 M52 85mm ATG - original designation was vz.52

#83 M53 100mm ATG - original designation was vz.53

#84 M1944 100mm ATG - in addition to information in a previous post, I've read in an article on BS-3, that they were bought by Poland and Bulgaria, while there's no information on other Warsaw pact countries.
According to forum.valka.cz, they used unspecified numbers of vz.40 N (75 mm Pak 40) and vz.43/41N (88 mm Pak 43/41) guns.

#86, 87 ZPU-2 AAMG, ZPU-4 AAMG - quoted pages don't mention these 14.5mm AAMGs in the Czechoslovak Army.

Proposed unit - they had own 4 x 12.7mm vz.53 (DShKM) used from 1953 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/65097 ) I suggest to replace one of those with it (icon 1976, weapon 239 from Egyptian oob, picture might be 11087)

#88 Vz.53 AA-Gun - commissioned in 1953, mass production from 1956 (now it's 1/65!) http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/1111 . Maybe better name would be 30mm vz.53 AAG ? Better icon is 1984 (4-wheel)

#89 57mm AA-Gun - first date 1/50 is doubtful, since a production in the USSR started that year (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/958 ). I guess mid-50s would be closer to truth. I've only found info on rearming one unit in 1960. It isn't mentioned among AA armament on Czech MoD page now. Maybe better name would be 57mm S60 AA-Gun or 57mm S-60 AAG?

#91 122mm Field Gun - maybe rather Howitzer..?

#93 vz.52 MMG [2] - vz.52 was only Bren-like LMG http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/38990

#94 vz/59 MMG [2] - name should be vz.59

#95 S-300PMU - it was operational from 1990 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/39953 ). Better photo is 23718 or 65367 (SP version)

#96 130mm M46 FG - it was used definitely earlier (now: 1/91-1/96). I've only found information, that one brigade was rearmed with 130 mm guns in 1976.

#97 30mm AGS-17 GL - according to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_22.htm , introduced in 1978 (now: 1/80) (it might need formation changes)

[Pibwl]

Supplements:

57 BTR-50PK - according to Russian and Czech sources, it can carry 20 men (now 112). Speed was no more, than 45 km/h (now: 16) (it concerns all countries). According to http://www.palba.cz/printview.php?t=3606&start=0 they were used in CS from 1960.

76 Heavy truck - we might create earlier heavy truck, with long nose, until mid-70s, Tatra T111 for example (I can create picture)

78,90 57mm AT-Gun, 76mm Field Gun - extinct before 1968 (table http://www.palba.cz/forumfoto/displa...084&fullsize=1 )

81 57mm AT-Gun - a secondary weapon should be probably some bolt rifle, eg. #20 M38/44 Carbine (or SMG, like PPSh, PPS, or after 1952: vz.24 SMG or vz.52 rifle) - the Czechs didn't use SKS.
The same for #80 37mm AA-Gun and #89 57mm AA-Gun (which could actually use vz.58)

93 vz.52 MMG [2] (non existing unit) - maybe it's worth to replace it with standard MMG after the war vz.37 http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/17115 (Besa), pic 52062 (used, I assume, until mid-50s).

Paras:

98 Para section - according to one comment on http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/11593 , early paratroops used
StG-44 (#12, pic 23062). It wasn't a standardized weapon in the Czech army, but I guess they were supplemented in paratroops with PPS-43 or MP-40 SMG rather than rifles, because later the paratroops were given Sa 26 SMG.
There are no signs of RPG-2 usage in CS on quoted pages, nor other sources. According to http://www.palba.cz/printview.php?t=3606&start=0 there existed Panzerfaust and Panzerschrecks in CS, although most were stored due to doubtful reliability (however, we consider a war situation).

Most probably before 1958 a para section had 9 men (like infantry section - it will be covered later). According to http://www.palba.cz/printview.php?t=3156&start=0 , first training and experimental para battalion existed already in 1947, so first date should be changed.

99 Para section - from early 50s, paratroops used Sa 25 then Sa 26 SMG (http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/16961/start/0 and note on Stg-44 page above) (#6, pic 37103). Section should have 9 men (as above)

100 Para section - most probably after 1958 a para section had 8 men (like infantry section - it will be covered later, see also below)

101 Para section - in 1969 a para section had 8 men (http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_97.htm ). Armament is OK. It is possible, that RPG-7 was introduced some two years earlier (there's a mention on manual from 1967 http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/28502 )

102 Para section - I wonder, if they really had replaced RPG-7 with RPG-75, offering much worse range. It's my supposition, but RPG-75 was rather an one-shot additional infantry weapon, like M72 LAW. Moreover, paratroop section should have best AT capabilities possible, with no reason to withdraw RPG-7. In addition, RPG-7 launcher with 8 shots probably weighs less, than 8 RPG-75 launchers (and sure takes less space).

103 SMG section - no signs of RPG-2 usage - see #98. There's no information, if they had any RPG at all. Class should be rather 66 (like #302), since now they are infantry, like rifle-armed #306, 308

104 Para Sniper - better picture of Czech vz.54 rifle is 37112

105 Para Sniper - from mid-70s they used SVD (http://www.palba.cz/portal.php?news=...ea9082438f185f ) - I don't know if it has a connection with increased vision (picture 11112)

108 Engineers - the Czech didn't use SKS. Could be #20 M38/44 Carbine

111 Engineers - I believe, main weapon of engineers from 1980 should be standard vz.58 rifle, not vz.24 SMG from early 1950s? It's rather not used currently, anyway.

#112, 113 Sniper - see 104, 105

[DRG]

All this and all the other reports are now on the list and I will start looking into them soon

Don

[Pibwl]

Helicopters

114 Mi-4 - standard armament of military Mi-4 was 12.7mm TKB-481 (aka A-12,7) MG (I suggest to arm it with #226 MG, renamed to "12.7mm TKB MG" - according to further suggestions, Mi-4 will be the only unit to use weapon #226). Used from 6/56 (now: 1/56, it would need formations' change as the earliest unit) (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mi-4.htm).

115 Mi-4C - according to a Polish article and Czech page http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mi-4.htm , it was Czech modification named actually Mi-4B. It was armed with 64 (4x16) S-5K rockets, so it needs double number of rockets or upgrade to 4x57mm S-5K (eg. weapon #185 from Russian oob). (Seems from this page however, that the mounting wasn't much successful, and it isn't sure if armament was actually used). It also should be armed with a standard 12.7 MG (as above). According to a photo on that page, also 16 x 130 mm rockets were tested or used later (not Soviet S-13, but own design), but there is no closer info.

BTW: IMO more proportional value for 4x57mm S-5K would be kill=11 (now 2x57mm has kill 8, 4x57mm - 10 and 8x57mm - 15).

116 BRDM-2b - ordinary BRDM-2 wasn't actually used in CS - see unit #53

117 Mi-171Sh - better name is Mi-171S (Czech letter S with "v"). Used from 7/05 (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil2/mi-171s.htm ). Gun armament should be reduced IMO to one MG, because there are two in side doors and one in a rear ramp, so one target can be usually engaged with only one MG. MGs are vz.59, by the way (http://www.army.cz/avis/areport2005/ar17str.pdf )
There can be also variant with 6x32 57mm S-5K rockets or 6x20 80mm rockets (maybe replacing #119 unit)

118 Mi-8 - precisely, Mi-8T. It carried 64 (4x16) S-5K rockets, so their number should be doubled or they could be upgraded to 4x57mm S-5K. According to http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mi-8.htm first ones were delivered in late 1967 (now 1/67) and used well after 1986, but later photos on this page don't show hardpoints. Probably they were disarmed in 1991, like Mi-17 (see #120), so probable ending date of armed variant should be 12/91.

119 Mi-8TB - there's no sign that such gunship variant was ever used in Czechoslovakia and it's very doubtful. A detailed page on the Czech Mi-8 quoted above don't mention it. To be removed (or changed to rocket-armed Mi-171S - see #117)

120 Mi-17 - most probably they didn't carry nose MG. It could carry at least 6x16 rockets (maximum 6x32), so it could be fitted with third weapon #190 with 12+4 shots and they even all could be upgraded to 4x57mm S-5K. According to http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/mi-17.htm they were disarmed starting from 1991, due to interpretation of CFE Treaty (including removal of electric wiring). Photos on this page don't confirm presence of a machine gun nor its mounting in a nose.

121 Mi-8 / Falanga - no sign it was ever used in CS - see unit #119. It could be changed to normal unarmed Mi-8T, used from late 67 until some 2015(?)

122 W-3A Sokol - used since 10/96 (now: 1/96).

123 Mi-17 - used since 10/84 probably until 120 (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/mi-17.htm )

124 Mi-24 / Falanga - proper name is Mi-24D. Delivered in 24.8.78 (now: 1/78) and used until 2003 (now: 12/91)(http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/mi-24.htm ). Standard armament of Mi-24 was 128 (4x32) S-5K rockets (in addition to missiles), so they should be upgraded to double number of 4x57mm S-5K or to 8x57mm S-5K (weapon #186 from Russian oob). Gun's name spelling in Czech is JaKB. Cooler icon (and fit to actual camo) is 3484.

125 Mi-24 / Kokon - proper name is Mi-24V. Delivered only in late 12/85 (now: 1/85) (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/mi-24.htm ). Rocket armament and icon - as above.

126 Mi-24 / Kokon - name, rockets, icon - as above.

...

550 Mi-1 - max speed was 185km/h (61, now: 76) - it concerns all countries.

There was also a variant Mi-1AKR for artillery spotting from 1962.

551 Fa-223 - currently has no radio value. It was only one or two units.

Proposed unit: light helicopter VR-2 (HC-2) (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/hc-2.htm ). Data, icon and picture (as for now) may be similar to OH-23 Raven, but crew=1, carry=1, speed=42 (126 km/h), used from 1956 (there were army trials of the prototype from 1956, small series went to army in 1960) until some 1963. (Needs date change in formation #39)

...

902 Mi-17 - most probably they didn't carry MG. See #120.

903 Mi-24 Hind E - correct name is Mi-24V. I can't see a reason to create rocket-only armed variations of unit #125, since Mi-24 could carry 4 missiles and 128 rockets 57 mm at a time as a standard. Anyway, used from 1/86 (see #125), correct icon=3484 or 3485 (now it's Mi-24A).

904 Mi-24 Hind D - correct name is Mi-24D. As above, I can't see a reason to create rocket-only armed variations of unit #124, since Mi-24 could carry 4 missiles and 128 rockets 57 mm at a time as a standard. Used from 8/78 (see #124).

905 Mi-24 Hind E - icon, name, date as #903. Apart from 80 mm rockets, it can carry also 4 x 9M114 Sturm missiles (see #125).

906 Mi-24 Hind D - name, date as #904. I have no specific information, but it seems, that 80 mm rockets were used only from the 1980s. Apart from 80 mm rockets, it can carry also 4 Falanga AT missiles (see #124).

907 Mi-24 Hind E - icon, name as #903. It can carry up to 16 x 122 mm rockets (4x4) and also 4 x 9M114 Sturm missiles (see #125). The rocket's designation is LR-122 (modified BM-21 Grad rocket - http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/22273 ). These rockets were first tested in 6/89 (now: 1/85) (http://www.vrtulnik.cz/mil/grady.htm ). A photo with 8x122 mm and 64x57mm: http://www.acr.army.cz/images/id_5001_6000/5063/02.jpg

908 Mi-24 Hind D - name Mi-24D. As for rockets and first date - see above.

909 Mi-24 Hind E - I haven't found any information if there ever existed guided 57 mm rockets (which seem to small for guidance and are generally considered too small to be effective) - and if they are used by the Czech Republic.

910, 911 Mi-24 Hind E - name, icon as #903. I haven't found any information if there are used guided rockets in the Czech Republic. It should be verified.

[Pibwl]

Aircraft

Most info concerning aircraft 1946-50 is taken from a Czech article in (Polish) Lotnictwo Wojskowe magazine.

General note: in many cases (not only aircraft), price of units should change, if armament changes are applied, but I generally don't deal with prices.

127 Yak-9B - Czechoslovakia didn't use Yak fighters at all (with exception of Yak-23).

It can be replaced with Spitfire LF.IXE - eg. French #162, used in 1/46 - 12/48, armed with 2x20 mm, 2x12.7mm and two bombs 100 kg (I don't think, that they bought 113 kg (250pdr) bombs. Maybe they could be used with one German or Soviet 250 kg? - my guess). Icon 514 is OK, without signs.

128 La-5N - proper name La-5FN, used until 1948. But it's better to rename it La-7, with the same stats - used in bigger number and until 1950 (now: 12/54). Picture and icon are OK. According to Russian sources, both could only take 2 x 100 kg bombs, not 4 x 125 (I have no information on bombs, but 125 kg was not typical in German/Soviet inventory which Czechoslovakia might have used and this weapon should be rather changed to standard 100 kg).

129 Avia S-99 - not numerous unit (radio=1), used from some mid-46 until some 1953 (now: 1/46-12/54). "Avia" could be omitted, since they were Bf 109, only assembled and restored in Avia.

130 S-92 (Me-262) - withdrawn from service already in 1951 (now: 12/59 - hard to imagine how to keep operating ex-German WWII jets so long). It could be available earlier (now 1/49) - there were several available in 1948, although they were used for experiments and training and only in 10/50 there was created the first jet fighter unit. Size should be rather 4.

131 S-102 (Mig-15) - first delivered in 6/51 (now: 1/51).

132 MiG-17F - MiG-17 didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets, and moreover, CS used only two MiG-17F (http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10547.html ). I suggest to change it to an interesting Czech attack variant MiG-15SB (see http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10543.html ). Data and guns like MiG-15 (above), but speed = rather 10 due to increased weight. Used from 1959 until 1983, armed in following variants:
- 40 rockets 55 mm LR-55 (Czech design, probably equivalent to Soviet 57 mm S-5 with HE warhead)
- 4 rockets 130 mm LR-130 (Czech design, HEAT warhead, probably similar to Western 5in rockets)
- 4 bombs 100 kg (6 without fuel tanks)
- 2 cluster bombs RBK-250 (#199, I don't know, if anti-personel or anti-tank and don't know since when)
In addition to rockets it could take 2 x 100 kg bombs, if without fuel tanks.

(BTW: I don't know why MiG-15 and MiG-17 have in the game different ammo loads: 4 vs 6 x 37 mm and 8 vs 9 x 23 mm, while they both had 40 rounds 37 mm and 80 rounds 23 mm)

133 MiG-17F - see above - I suggest to change it to MiG-15SB armed with same guns and 4-6 bombs 100 kg (see above).

134 MiG-17PF - MiG-17PF didn't carry obsolete RS-82 rockets. I suggest to remove this unit (or change to MiG-15 SB).

135 MiG-17PF - it should have the same ammo load for 23 mm guns, as MiG-15 and 17F, which have 8 or 9 shots (it has 6). Speed could be 12 - max 1123km/h.

136 Il-10 Sturmovik - name could be changed to B-33 or Avia B-33 (technically, Avia was a proper name for licensed production B-33 since 1952, but Avias constituted a great majority). According to a Russian book on Il-10 [Aviakollektsya 5/2004], used from 8/50 until 1960 (now there is 1/50-12/58). It could take only 4 rockets (now it has 2x4) [same source].

137 Il-28 - delivered only in 1955 (now: 1/53), withdrawn from bomber units in 1965 (now: 12/71) - until 1973 they served for reconnaissance. In 1960 fixed guns were dismounted in Czechoslovakia, though [source Aviakollektsya 6/2006]. So there could be another unit in 1960-65, without guns (as a level bomber?). I'm not sure, if it should be fighter-bomber class at all - in Soviet oob they are only level bombers or COIN, and were rather not fit to strafing. As a level bomber, it would need new formation.

138 MiG-21PF - PF used from 8/64 (now there's 1/66) (http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10769.html ).

139, 140 S-105 - Czechoslovakia used S-105 (licence MiG-19) from 1958 (now there's 1967!) [Source: MiG-19 In action]. Armament of unit #140 seems OK, though typical for MiG-19 was 8-rocket 57 mm launchers on only two pods (and two tanks or bombs).

141 MiG-21PFM - RS-2US was AA only missile, so it must be an error. It could use unguided S-24 240 mm missiles instead (weapon #176 240mm S-24 Rkt).

(Note: RS-2US was only experimentally used against ground targets by the Russians, in a process of development of Ch-66 missile, but it had only 13-kg warhead and couldn't do much harm, with low precision. Anyway, it should be removed - unless somebody finds a source, that the Czechs meant to use it against ground. A special air-to-ground missile Ch-66 (Kh-66, AS-7) was developed for MiG-21PF, but I have no confirmation, that the Czechs had them (basically an earlier version of Ch-23 Kerry). Maybe it's meant to be this missile? Data for Ch-66: HE/HEAT warhead 103 kg including 51 kg of explosive (Ch-25 has warhead 108 kg, RS-2 has 13 kg), max range 8 km, accuracy 40 seems ok. It was commissioned in the USSR in 1968, so earliest possible date of export seems some 1969).

142, 143 MiG-21M, MF - armament of these aircraft should be in fact swapped (or names and everything else should be swapped, leaving armament). According to Czech page http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10769.html, version M (also known locally as MA) could carry up to 4x 250 kg bombs, "Theoretically 2x 500 kg could be carried after strengthening of wings". Version MF could carry 500 kg bombs without problems.

There could be also variant of M with 64 (4x16) 57mm S-5 rockets. There is also mention on parachute bombs on the page. Apart from latest times, they were just silver (icon 2757)

144 L-29 - better name is L-29 Delfin. Correct picture is 23032 (currently it is Hawk). 2 x 16 rockets is probably twice too much - it had two hardpoints up to 100 kg (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/6443 ), while loaded launcher for 16 rockets weighted around 138 kg. Contrary to some Western designs, it wasn't meant an attack aircraft, just a trainer. More appropriate is silver icon 1106.

145 Yak-23 - Czech spelling is Jak-23 (it also carried designation S-101). According to this Russian page http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/yak23.html they were delivered only in the end of 1950 and used until 1956 (now: 1/49-12/51). According to article on the Czech post-war aviation, only in October 1950 there was created the first jet fighter unit, so it's the earliest date anyway.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

Aircraft

General note: in many cases (not only aircraft), price of units should change, if armament changes are applied, but I generally don't deal with prices.

So I assume then you had no idea every OOB is run through a cost calculator program before release and that automatically adjusts the cost of a unit based on a universal formula ? It's in the OOB folder.

Also, do all these date availability adjustments take into account there cannot be date gaps in the units used in a formation so if I made these changes I'm not going to find out I suddenly have a 2 year gap someplace ?


Don