Missiles and point-defense

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by ExplorerBob

If the weapon flag is not "shootable", but it still does have SIZE (the first SIZE, in the weapon type, not the one that's used to determine the weapon's graphical size), it apparently becomes an invincible weapon that can be used to block enemy shots.

It's a little unclear to me exactly what you're experiencing or what's causing it... however, I can be reasonably certain it's not just a standard effect of not being shootable but still having the first SIZE line. There has to be some other cause of what you're experiencing.

The game is full of weapons that have a SIZE line but are not shootable. Neptunium railgun, explosive chaingun, PVC, Gluon Web Gun, etc. If that's all it took to create the effect you're looking at, the game would feature more than a dozen examples of weapons that created that effect. Every weapon (or other ship system) needs that first SIZE line, as it determines whether the item fits on a fighter (SIZE 1) or only on larger ships (SIZE 2).

So either I'm completely misunderstanding your post, or the cause of the effect is actually elsewhere in the weapon's code.

[ExplorerBob]

Well, to be fair, it's a win against five Tchorak ships, not one. ;-)

That said, though, you might have a point that there are tradeoffs to various weapon systems...it does mean, though, that we have to balance for humans, not AI, if the missiles are so easily defeated.

I'll continue trying to work on a solution to this missile problem, to make it harder to defeat them without a dedicated anti-missile setup, but it may be tricky. In any case, while it is a problem, I admit that, in retrospect, my post might have been a bit dramatic.

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by ExplorerBob

Well, to be fair, it's a win against five Tchorak ships, not one. ;-)

FIVE? I missed that. Now I understand why it bothered you so much.

I was picturing a typical Tan Ru fleet vs a typical Tchorak fleet. However, 5 Tchorak losing to 4 Tan Ru is kinda... sad.

Looking back at your first post, and yeah, I see it's really clearly spelled out. I must have been distracted or skimming or something. Yeesh. Sorry about that.

[ExplorerBob]

One more thing, now that I saw your most recent post.

I changed up the Tchorak fleets, when I went to nerf them, and the 1 VM/2 CB/2LP fleet does exist now, I believe, in Odd Adventures...the ships in OA are individually a bit less powerful, but they come in more dangerous fleets now.

It's not typical; I think it's like the biggest Tchorak fleet you can get, but then, the four-Deci thing is kinda uncommon too.

[ExplorerBob]

Here's where my experiments have taken me so far:

Impaler missiles are left about the same, albeit with a new emphasis on targeting fighters, who are the main targets with "low-grade starship hulls" anyway. I upped their reload speed, so you can get more of them out quicker.

Fusion torps and missiles are now swarm-type weapons, which launch five or six missiles/torps at a time. This makes them harder to stop with point-defense weapons. Their shots are smaller and do less individual damage than now.

Fusion rockets have an upped reload speed and do less individual damage.

Multi-missiles are unchanged.

Tchorak missiles are the most interesting -- I have their launcher spit out more than one at a time, but with no curve or anything, so they come off as more durable than normal missiles, and can take several shots before they go down.

[ExplorerBob]

Note that all of these have the side effect of making point-defense weapons less effective in general.

The alternate-universe frigate Dragon's neptunium railguns and missiles will be awfully quaint, at the end of this, instead of being considered abnormally powerful.

At least they still have the double-speed hydrogen drive.

[Lost In Space]

Fascinating thread. I agree with ExplorerBob against removing the fire button. I frequently use it to target different parts of enemy ships, often with the aim of disabling a weapon. I've known about "every weapon can be a point based defence weapon" for a while now, and use it by ordering my wing ships to fire at a slight angle ahead to destroy incoming missiles. Obviously, I'm having more trouble against multi-missile packs, since those little buggers quickly break into tons of smaller ones.

The result of these latest tweaks should prove interesting. I look forward to trying them out when ready, both in Odd Worlds and Drives R Us.

[ExplorerBob]

By "size", I'm referring to the bolded text, not the *very* first line.

TYPE projectile
RATE 700 0
CLIP 0
NUMB 1
SPED 100
TURN 90
RANG 1000
FLAG homing
SIZE 2
DAMG 1800 1800

Haven't worked much on OA lately, but might do so soon.

[sgqwonkian]

It's been so long since I've done any hardcore modding, I had to actually open up files and compare to understand what you meant.

You're absolutely right, that does open up some interesting design space for a new weapon or two.