Balanced Nations

[OmikronWarrior]

I am thinking about starting a tournament style of dominions games of which a key feature would be randomly assigned nations. I want the pool of assigned nations to be as balanced against each other as possible. To keep it simple, I plan on using the Six Lands map and only require six nations for each age.

So, I am seeking suggestions. Keep in mind that nations are ideally blanced at all stages of the game. The balance does not have to be perfect, but pairing a heavy rush nation like Vanheim with a late bloomer like Pythium is bad balance (for my purposes). Also, no underwater start nations.

I am looking for suggestions for any ages. Explanations for why you chose the nations you did are also appreciated.

To get started:
Mictlan
Niefleheim
Vanheim
Lanka
Fomoria
Sauromatia

I chose these EA nations because they are for the most part the bless powerhouses. This should result in a lot of combat right from the getgo in which nations can participate on relatively even footing depending on their bless. Thoughts?

[13lackGu4rd]

Vanheim and Fomoria really don't fit with the other 4. you should probably add Hinnom as the 5th and I'm not sure about 6th. Kailasa would fit the whole bless thing but is rather underpowered compared to the giant 5. Vanheim in EA doesn't even have Vans like MA and Midgard, so bless rush sort of out of the option for them, not to mention they're underpowered themselves when compared to the giant 5.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, Hinnom is probable the strongest EA nation. Fomoria is at least one league lower than top5 nations. It's much weaker cousing of Niefel, with so many weaknesses... which are even worse on such a small map.

[Rytek]

Tien Chi
Marverni
Ermor
Ulm
Arcoscophele
Not sure about the 6th one, maybe TnN

All of them are human nations. All of them do not get any freebie points for temp scales. Ulm gets no S mages but make up for it with access to death and forging bonus. They all have decent Sacreds, but nothing you would really build a strategy around.

TNN is the only one who has a different power curve than the others. Ramping up in the midgame with recruitable thugs and then tapering off late game with no death or Astral.

[LDiCesare]

I'd pick T'ien Chi over Vanheim if you want to mix in bless nations. And I disagree with Rytek in that you can build a belss strat on TC's sacreds. Wot5E are very good for rushes, and although they are capital only, TC makes up for that with other tools (sacred summons, good magic diversity) later on.

[Hadrian_II]

i would switch vanheim with helheim, to have 6 heavy bless nations agains each others.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im not sure what the goal is but..
there have been discussions about perfectly balanced games decided only by strategy.

The basis usually involves one of the chess-nation mods. Such as the one that gives everyone Ulm to play. And a mirror-balanced map. Low events. And possibly NI-ing the map or giving all provinces the same generic poptype. Thats all I remember at the moment.

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Im not sure what the goal is but..
there have been discussions about perfectly balanced games decided only by strategy.

The basis usually involves one of the chess-nation mods. Such as the one that gives everyone Ulm to play. And a mirror-balanced map. Low events. And possibly NI-ing the map or giving all provinces the same generic poptype. Thats all I remember at the moment.

That is a little to balanced. I am not looking for "perfect balance," but just six nations that no player would feel slighted getting one of.

[Squirrelloid]

I think Rytek's list is probably the better direction to head in. There's no way you're going to find 6 nations that are balanced around the most powerful.

(I'd say Lanka is the most powerful EA nation, fwiw.)

Settings sort of matter here. Is this easy research? Standard research? Something else?

Other suggestions for Rytek's list:
Aby - it has a powerful early game, but no more so than EA TC. In fact, it might displace EA TC because its otherwise much more limited. (and unlike EA TC, armor of achilles totally destroys its bless rush strategy).

C'tis (as #6 instead of TNN) - mage-based like the rest of the nations, with pretty sad troop line-up like most of the rest of the nations.

Maybe also consider Kailasa. Its much more sacred dependent, but its on the right level of power.

Considered but not recommended:
Agartha - too pathetic to compete. Even against those nations. 'Bad troop lineup' takes on a whole new realm of meaning - everyone else's troops look *spectacular* by comparison. And its useful mages are capital only and hugely overpriced.

Oh, I'm assuming CBM 1.6, fwiw.

[Rytek]

I was thinking more about it and I think Ctiss is a better fit than TNN. I would keep TC over Abysia. I think Abysia is a much stronger early nation than TC. TC has good bless troops but they are vulnerable to archers, slingers and javelins which the other nations have an abundance of.