Pretenders: Rainbow vs SC

[Squirrelloid]

Consider an S6 Dom 8 Oracle with O3P3G3L3M3 and your choice of H3 or C3. That's neither a rainbow or an SC, and its the extreme end of a perfectly good pretender archetype. (basically pure scales with good dominion and enough astral to matter later).

Consider an S9F9W9 Dom 7 Oracle w/ T2S3H3D3L3Dr2. Not unreasonable for a nation like LA Mictlan who wants a big bless, and can control its dominion spread by choosing if and when to blood sacrifice (so it only really suffers the effects of its dominion in and around its capital). Less extreme versions of that can certainly be imagined. Its also not an SC or a rainbow.

I'm not sure how you would classify a Forge Lord. I mean, he's not really a rainbow, but you'll probably drop 3-4 paths on him. He can SC, but you're not going to use him as one. He's going to sit in a lab and forge stuff.

[rdonj]

With regards to bless pretenders: If at all possible to take an SCable pretender as your bless nation, it is a good idea. Most heavy blesses are not that great for late game spellcasting, and aside from some forging and big globals and such, there is not much that a non-SC pretender there can offer you. Whereas, if you take an SC pretender, it gives you a powerful unit that can be useful and tough to kill whatever you're using it for in the late game, which can be very useful. Whether as a battlefield spellcaster or a frontline combatant. And if you're going strong enough of a bless to be imprisoned, your pretender should hopefully not have to do a whole lot of diversifying or you are probably in trouble.

[Finalgenesis]

Those would be "Others", while I might want to test them, I'm too addicted to rainbow ...

Maybe once I play MP more I'll have a better appreciation of SC

[Finalgenesis]

I actually tried a wyrm SC out when I first played. It got creamed pretty hard. Now that I know the combat mechanics better I guess awe is almost mandatory on a early SC? Thats a lot of points sunk into a SC in exchange for summon / forge / site finds >.<

[rdonj]

A wyrm needs awe, yes. It's also not a bad idea to give it a splash of magic to make it useful a bit longer, but if you take one with no magic it's certainly not very painful to lose it.

Also just to be clear, when I said "SC pretenders are more useful..." I didn't mean period, I meant comparatively to other times you'd use an SC pretender I have personally only once ever taken a (dormant bless) SC pretender in an MP game (and I lost because I was playing TNN and had no magic diversity when late game rolled around, heh. On the other hand, that SC pretender is basically the entire reason I survived the early game against Niefelheim). Most of my MP pretenders are... blessers and rainbows :P I honestly hate SC pretenders that do not have healing or immortality, because without one of those I feel they are marginalized too easily.

[Finalgenesis]

I must agree! I was feeling like I overlooked something in my analysis since 90% of the game thread, guides, brainstorm all use SC chasis. Wyrm, clops, gorgon, various titan chasis ...etc. I guess it is that important for MP games.

It would be ironic to site find all my lands then get steamrolled by a Hv bless SC pretender nation. I suppose if they know your going rainbow then your land must have lots of juicy revealed sites, coupled with the fact you have no early SC would make you mighty tempting...

I think I may have to go SC in my MP games now that I analyze it abit more...

[KissBlade]

Originally Posted by Finalgenesis

I must agree! I was feeling like I overlooked something in my analysis since 90% of the game thread, guides, brainstorm all use SC chasis. Wyrm, clops, gorgon, various titan chasis ...etc. I guess it is that important for MP games.

It would be ironic to site find all my lands then get steamrolled by a Hv bless SC pretender nation. I suppose if they know your going rainbow then your land must have lots of juicy revealed sites, coupled with the fact you have no early SC would make you mighty tempting...

I think I may have to go SC in my MP games now that I analyze it abit more...

You've just answered your own question. You take a SC when you feel the nation/map requires one for adequate defense.

[13lackGu4rd]

as others have said, pretender choices are a lot more complex than what you've done in this poll. moreover, you can't really set the specific nations aside, as the nation you play plays a major roll in your pretender selection. for example, nations with horrible early expansion such as EA Agartha, UW nations(barring MA Oceania), etc just scream for an awake SC pretender to allow them to set off the ground. others like Mictlan, Lanka, etc scream for a bless strategy due to their awesome sacreds but otherwise very unimpressive national armies. others like Sauromatia, Vanheim(MA+Midgard less for EA), etc have awesome national armies to expand with, thus can greatly benefit from having strong scales or perhaps the magic diversity of a Rainbow. there is also the high Astral pretender for late game, mainly the Oracle, which can be used both in a bless(S9+?) or in a high scales strategy.

also, among SCs, there are the short term type(such as the Wyrm and that under water Octopus) who have terrible item slots, hence lose a lot of their effectiveness in mid-late game. others like the Cyclops, GK, PoD, etc have all the normal slots so they can function as mid-late game SCs with good items on them. also, some bless pretenders such as a F9+? imprisoned Moloch(for Mictlan and other nations that benefit greatly from F9 bless) are mainly a bless chassis but once awake they too can function as mid-late game SCs with items.

there are others of course, such as a scale based Titan pretender, gem generating pretender(Great Enchantress, Mother of Rivers, Lord of Rebirth, etc), the Forge Lord, etc.

thus there can never really be a favorite pretender, as it greatly depends on which nation you play, also the game settings, other players, etc can and should factor into yout pretender selection.

[Finalgenesis]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

thus there can never really be a favorite pretender, as it greatly depends on which nation you play, also the game settings, other players, etc can and should factor into yout pretender selection.

I do have a fav, rainbow chasis! Even for EA Mictlan or other bless nation I went with rainbow chasis (F9?4?4?3).

I know what your saying and I could agree that it IS nation specific, but some players tend to have a prefered chasis where they prefer, they may use something else as it synergize better with the specific nation, but they probably have a preference.

It sounds like your preference is no preference and strictly flexible, unlike me who can't deviate from a rainbow under any circumstances... Maybe MP will cure me of that though.

[chrispedersen]

Wyrm, Moloch, Prince of Death, Cyclops, Ghost King, Colossal Fetish, Gaiea, Carrion Dragon, Immortal Oracle, Both Imperial Generals, Both Bulls, Lord of Winter, Virtue, Kraken, varior Rlyeh's, can all be used as SC's. Lord of Desert Plague, the destroyer.

Some others you've left out:

Forge Lord, Immortal Glyph, Blood Fountain, Divine Emperor (CBM only), Oracle, ...